Why CnC isn't so successful...

[Dtiger02]

You guys can say whatever you want, I personally don't care and no one will change my thoughts but this is exactly why I think CnC is not as successful as Starcraft 2 or somthing like League of Legends or any successful RTS I didn't mention.

1. There are NO CAPS - honestly, you can keep saying it over and over again "Oh well CnC doesn't have caps because that's what makes CnC, CnC itself". Yeah? Well that's what makes CnC not nearly in competition with sales compared to SC2. This game needs caps. I'm guna make this really clear, if there are NO caps, all Victory games or whoever is in charge is gonna do is Attract CnC Fans and Buffs ONLY. You want all sorts of people to play CnC, not just CnC people. Ofcourse the only people that will disagree with me are ofcourse CNC FANS. Biased. Ask any other RTS player if CnC should have caps and prolly 8 in 10 people would say yes. You NEED Boundries in ANY good RTS game.

2. Epic Units? - Unfortunetly this ruined the game for Kane's Wrath (which is the last best CnC game). It doesn't matter what your counterarguement is; "Epic units suck", "they're easy to take down", "you're bad". Yeah, well if Epic units 'suck so bad' then maybe Victory Games should buff them right? Make them more powerful? No. There shouldn't be any Epic units in the first place. I think we can ALL agree on one thing. No matter how much you think Epic Units are NOT broken or unbalanced, we can all concure that the game(s) would be better WITHOUT Epic units. I've been playing CnC for 6 years and not once did I ask myself "hmm maybe this game should have a unit that just kicks ***...?" It bothers me when people don't make sense when they speak. So the common quote is "Epic Units can be taken down with large numbers and smart tactics." If this were the case, no one would ever build Epic Units because a lot of players are experienced. Specifically, I don't like the EH for the Scrin. 5000 res. and you got this big mofo' with corruptors behind it. You kill it and 50 seconds later another EH.

3. More diversity between factions - this is simple; each faction is unique to a certain extent however... when I play with Nod, it still feels like GDI, and when I play with Scrin, it's the (almost) exact same thing only now slightly different units and powers. In Starcraft 2 you have 3 very unique distinct factions. THAT is how you make an awsome game.

4. An actual DIFFERENCE between factions and subfactions - in KW I could barely tell the difference between ZOCOM and GDI or Reaper-17 and Scrin. A really poor job was done. If you're guna make an entire SUBFACTION that specializes in a certain mode of combat, then do that. Don't copy and paste the faction based off of the original and then add 1 or 2 units, take 1 or 2 away, upgrade 1, change 1 support power, and then call it a "SUBFACTION". It seems to me more of a "Modified Faction" than "Subfaction."

5. Last but not least - I don't even WANT to see the CnC 4 concept in the next CnC. I played a good decent 10 matches and I almost got sick. I went RIGHT BACK to Kane's Wrath. It's not CnC. For all I care they could have named it "Nameless RTS Game: Tiberian Twilight" Please stick to CnC concept.

Sadly, I am drifting away from CnC. I've now begun to play Starcraft 2. But I am waiting for the next CnC game and I hope it impresses.

[StormWolf]

C&C not being so popular is most likely based off of the fact that the quality has gone downhill since after Generals. The community has started to dissolve and it doesn't help that RTS games aren't as popular as they were back in the 1990's. Right now C&C is at its lowest because the last game sucked and not that many people bought it. Hopefully this new game can bring some sort of rise in popularity back to the community.

[stephanovich]

C&C Generals...That is all.

[ConKid66]

You guys can say whatever you want, I personally don't care and no one will change my thoughts but this is exactly why I think CnC is not as successful as Starcraft 2 or somthing like League of Legends or any successful RTS I didn't mention.

1. There are NO CAPS - honestly, you can keep saying it over and over again "Oh well CnC doesn't have caps because that's what makes CnC, CnC itself". Yeah? Well that's what makes CnC not nearly in competition with sales compared to SC2. This game needs caps. I'm guna make this really clear, if there are NO caps, all Victory games or whoever is in charge is gonna do is Attract CnC Fans and Buffs ONLY. You want all sorts of people to play CnC, not just CnC people. Ofcourse the only people that will disagree with me are ofcourse CNC FANS. Biased. Ask any other RTS player if CnC should have caps and prolly 8 in 10 people would say yes. You NEED Boundries in ANY good RTS game.

2. Epic Units? - Unfortunetly this ruined the game for Kane's Wrath (which is the last best CnC game). It doesn't matter what your counterarguement is; "Epic units suck", "they're easy to take down", "you're bad". Yeah, well if Epic units 'suck so bad' then maybe Victory Games should buff them right? Make them more powerful? No. There shouldn't be any Epic units in the first place. I think we can ALL agree on one thing. No matter how much you think Epic Units are NOT broken or unbalanced, we can all concure that the game(s) would be better WITHOUT Epic units. I've been playing CnC for 6 years and not once did I ask myself "hmm maybe this game should have a unit that just kicks ***...?" It bothers me when people don't make sense when they speak. So the common quote is "Epic Units can be taken down with large numbers and smart tactics." If this were the case, no one would ever build Epic Units because a lot of players are experienced. Specifically, I don't like the EH for the Scrin. 5000 res. and you got this big mofo' with corruptors behind it. You kill it and 50 seconds later another EH.

3. More diversity between factions - this is simple; each faction is unique to a certain extent however... when I play with Nod, it still feels like GDI, and when I play with Scrin, it's the (almost) exact same thing only now slightly different units and powers. In Starcraft 2 you have 3 very unique distinct factions. THAT is how you make an awsome game.

4. An actual DIFFERENCE between factions and subfactions - in KW I could barely tell the difference between ZOCOM and GDI or Reaper-17 and Scrin. A really poor job was done. If you're guna make an entire SUBFACTION that specializes in a certain mode of combat, then do that. Don't copy and paste the faction based off of the original and then add 1 or 2 units, take 1 or 2 away, upgrade 1, change 1 support power, and then call it a "SUBFACTION". It seems to me more of a "Modified Faction" than "Subfaction."

5. Last but not least - I don't even WANT to see the CnC 4 concept in the next CnC. I played a good decent 10 matches and I almost got sick. I went RIGHT BACK to Kane's Wrath. It's not CnC. For all I care they could have named it "Nameless RTS Game: Tiberian Twilight" Please stick to CnC concept.

Sadly, I am drifting away from CnC. I've now begun to play Starcraft 2. But I am waiting for the next CnC game and I hope it impresses.

The factions ARE diverse. Try Cnc Tiberian Dawn or Red Alert 1 and then you will realise how diverse the factions in CnC 3 really are. Also, CnC 4 tried caps and it failed. No caps is what makes CnC, CnC, as opposed to Starcraft with Tiberium.

[Lauren]

Caps don't matter. Even without them you have less units when in SC2 if you and your opponent aren't all about 30 min no rush.
Faction diversity... well they were much more diverse as TW launched but EA more and more equalized them. Also RA3 was pretty much diverse in its factions.

[CrazyGDIfan123`]

youre just getting annoying now

every 2 weeks or so you make such a rant thread which 100% regurgitates the stuff you said in your previous thread
you dont exactly bother to look back at your old thread and the replies in it

nor do you seem to want to play any half-decent players
(mind you, perspectives of the game can change ALOT when you play noobs and when you play pros)

[City17Citizen]

1. My best bet is that u got wtfpawned some 20 times in a row, got nerd rage, and now demand ridiculous things like unit caps. Just learn to play!!!!

2. Agreed. Epic units suk

3,4. Actually, there are wide differences between factions, and each faction has its unique strats to use. If u cant see difference between Zocom and GDI, it means u just need a loooooot of practice.

5. First of all, how can u have decent matches by playing it only 10 times????? It is just lol, impossible.
Actually, cnc4 gameplay is decent, and excluding departure from traditional cnc game style, its bad reputation comes from other factors (horrible camapign and ending, lack of scrin, poor support). Here u have your unit caps too.

After all, lack of success comes from horrible support. Kane's Wrath patch which never came, cnc games left not supported with lot of bugs and imba, and tiberium story combined with completaly different than cnc game style wrapped together as cnc4 , was just too much.
I still play cnc, but if other rts game appear, similalry fun, I'll switch immediately. I dont trust EA, they always abandon their games and rush for new ones.

[GDICanuck]

I don't think that pop caps should be imposed on C&C games, unless it's because of technical issues, like with the console ports of TW, KW, and RA3. Everything in the Tib universe, from the story to the game mechanics, is based around controlling more Tiberium than the other guy. That's how it should stay.

The boundaries in C&C should come from a balance of the speed of the economy, the amount of resources available on a map, and unit and faction balance. The strategy to simply outproduce your opponent should be there, but it should be held in check by limited resources, and the counters your opponent can throw at you.

[BroderickAU]

It's simple - the games aren't very good.

[Commander32]

hm? they look fine to me, generals, CnC3, RA3 are good games IMO

[ChronoTrooper]

Do you see the Blizzard logo anywhere on this site? Go back to fairyland, dwarf.

I'm sorry, that was a little harsh. Please don't take me for somone who's opposed to consumer feedback, but it's frustrating to see people that think every game has to operate exactly the same. One of the things I like about C&C is that it has stayed true to its roots, and one of the Hallmarks of Westwood (Yes, screw EA; it's a Westwood game) is the ability to produce as big a force as your RAM can allow. It's not archaic. It's just a different syle of gameplay. It's C&C's style, and I personally think it would be a sad day for RTS to see it disappear.

[CnC_Fin]

Population cap imo does not fit C&C games. I don't mind spamming unit, but I've never spammed them, except sometimes infantry for fun. C&C is ofcourse about strategy etc. but fun must not be forgotten, and to my mind pop cap lowers the fun.

And shouldn't this topic be more in General discussion?

[Giovingo]

It is no seceret that EA screwed the pooch on Generals, which leaves a very bad taste in the mouths of CnC fans, which did lead to it's decline. CnC 3 was a decenet game, my coplaint though is the disconnect in storyline from TS to TW. Basically CnC 3 was a bad remake of CnC one, seeing as the tech tree for NOD and GDI are practically the same in both games. Then there is CnC4...which is just....just terrible. That is why Command And Conquer is low in it's raitings, when you have 2 bad titles in a 5 year span then yes, you will loose alot customer base. However Victory Games is new, and we 'Hard Core' and other CnC fans need to give them the benifit of the doubt and encourage them to make a CNC title worth playing, worth expounding upon, and worth remembering. It is up to us in the community to brain storm and speak about what it is we want in this game, and if the majority of us are screaming to go back the way Command and Conquer used to be then Victory Games and EA will have to listen, or they will loose us forever to games like Star Craft.
So instead of ranting on everythning you hate about CnC and knocking everything that comes with it and start ranting about what you want to see changed or what would make the franchise better. CnC is yes, on the ropes but I sure don't want to see it die.
I should probably note, that games like Star Craft and those other successful RTS games were modeled after CnC. Command and Conquer is the frame work to all RTS games, so please you can't hate on a title that the other games are cut from the same glorious cloth.

[LargoX7]

C&C is not suckcesfull now, because EA don't care about it. They should make a patch or sth for c&c 3 and upgrade all C&C games like blizzard upgrades Starcraft 2 and WoW. Besides they wrecked c&c 4 so lots of fans were rly disapointed. Imo they should create c&c game that would be very simular to previous c&c games ( Starcraft 2 is very simular to SC1 so many people play it )

[Meyerm]

Considering I don't accept any game past C&C 3 as being C&C, the original games still have a strong fan base and I think it's still successful.

[Comp_Lex]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, but EA was criticized for creating the same game over and over again. So CNC4 had LoL-like gameplay and... it didn't go anywhere.

[StormWolf]

The problem with the pop cap in C&C 4 was that it was to low. Having only around 10 units doesn't sound that fun to me. And to make things worse you can barely have any army of Tier 3 vehicles because they cost so much.

[phoenixcrap]

ok first of all why is this in cnc3 forums not the genral discussion?
a few notes cnc is cnc.... it does not try to be another game or storyline it is what it is. until cnc4 there were no unit caps and gameplay was awesome. i personally suck at this game unless i put huge restrictions on other players. but i love cnc. unit caps work for some games but cnc has always been about warfare. you could build an army of avatars and have all of them obliterated by airstrikes. it is about knowing each units capabilities and restrictions. epic units are great. they take forever to build and in reality can be taken down with ease if you have the right counter.
cnc4 units cap was way too low... 5 mammoth tanks is your cap.....i love my mammoths.... them and humvees were my personal army.... humvees for infantry and mammoths for everything else. cnc is its own game. to say it sucks or anything similiar means YOU can't play it. with the exception of cnc4 which blew harder than a tornado. starcraft was a great game as was total annihilation, warcraft, age of empires/mythology and all the other games. learn to adapt to each style of game and you will find them all enjoyable even cnc4.

[You_Lose112]

I'm getting tired of all your rants,if you dont like C&C fine,go play StarCraft 2.

[Firehawk17]

http://static.divbyzero.nl/facepalm/doublefacepalm.jpg

/Thread. I don't even need to say why.

Hmmmmmm....

[Gilleous]

As someone who actually likes SC2 and plays it... I find unit cap arguement from the original post kind of... insulting, not just to CnC players but SC2 players too.

I think the downhill decline can be attributed to low to near none existing support for the released games (as in patches and stuff like that) and the lackluster appeal the last one had. With newer shinnies out there now (with half of them having continued support) definately pulled away a lot of people away.

As for unit caps... I do not see how the OP think it is some sort of secret recipie to a good RTS. It is nothing more than one of the 5 traditional resources Strategy games in general tend to have (tvtropes). Perhaps CnC doesn't have a pop cap/food (#4), but SC2 doesn't have power (#3) (and no P powerfield build spheres is not 'power' as a resource but merely an active base and base build radius mechanic). Actually pop cap structures serve another function which is actually more important to the match (build radius, 'road' block, support air unit). The pop cap mechanic is only there to gate your production rate but really it comes off more as something for the player to fuss over to make sure he builds additional "whatevers" so he doesn't get supply blocked.

Needing to remember to build 1-2 whatevers per production cycle does not make for a great gameplay element. Hence why I think they double up for another function anyways. As for the Hard Cap, unless both players turtled... there is no way you should hit it, in a proper match armies would have clashed and units would have been lost.

Not sure how unit caps are critical, and not every RTS has to be a clone or use the same 5 resource types the same way (or needing to use every single one either, I respect CnC for only having a gold type and no lumber type resource).

[AthCom]

1. Pop caps aren't good for an RTS game, imo.

2. Epic units were indeed a fail to me.

3. 3 very unique distinct factions.. Ever played Universe at War? Even though I thought it was good, it wasn't awesome at all.

4. I could see the difference. Btw, if it's an offshoot of GDI, why should ZOCOM be completely different? That doesn't make sense.

5. Well, not many C&C gamers really got into TT.. I didn't, was sad with it, but what's done is done. I hope we can retcon the thing.

[00margo]

I never see advertisements for command and conquer on television or anything. And to your points, caps are stupid, because one player can never hold an advantage. If an army gets destroyed, its "no big deal" because his army cant get bigger, so his advantage disappears. It takes LESS skill.

Epic units... well, ill stay out of that one, I'm not quite sure what i think.

Compare Scrin to GDI. very, very different. But when you compare GDi to nod, I can almost see your point, but that's because both factions are human, but they use COMPLETELY different tactics.

Sub factions aren't meant to be crazy different. That's why they are SUB factions and not "factions"

Duh. But only 10 matches? that game had what you wanted, but you cry that it needs to be traditional. lolz