Expansions to Main Game

[Stylsy]

Subject
Make expansions to the main game 'integrate' with the vanilla version so it is all in one executable.

Description
If (and hopefully) the game will be successful, no doubt there will be an expansion pack created for the game. Previously expansions to C&C have almost been separate games with different gameplay mechanics and patches.

When you look at an RTS game like Company of Heroes (see image), the expansion content is added to the vanilla game so it is all in one place. Also, balance changes and other patch fixes occur across all versions whether users have the expansion or not.

Any new single player missions, sub factions added or game modes would only appear to those who purchased the expansion, but you can play in same multiplayer matches as vanilla players so the player base is kept together and not fragmented. The expansion can be standalone also without having the original mission content available to those who haven't purchased both.

Positive Effect
The game community isn't fragmented and stays together hopefully ensuring a lengthier game life
The original version of the game doesn't become 'redundant' due to outdated features or balance
Post-release efforts regarding patching don't need to be separate and everyone gets the benefit of ongoing patch support
You could have temporary 'unlock' events to preview the expansion to existing gamers to attract them to buying the expansion

Negative Effect
It *may* be difficult to add major new gameplay features in the expansion because of balance issues
Patch sizes would be larger due to non-expansion owners needing relevant game files to be able to play against expansion owners

Media
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mskadu/2708165606/in/set-72157606377439060

[CnC_Fin]

Interesting... I approve.

[Noodlesocks]

Yes definately, anything that splits the community is a very bad thing. Integrated expansions have become a standard thing for RTS these days and it would be silly if C&C did not.

[batonek]

great idea also great thing would be in game tool to switch game modification. One change in special menu and you can anjoy any modification created by fans.

[GeneralSGJist]

lets do it, but regulateing content may become another thing the devs will need to do, and if he game is not supported for too long, it may be a total let down.

[Golan2781]

Having both the main game and expansion follow the same rules and play out in the same matches sounds awfully restrictive. It would be extremely difficult to add extensive changes or give new units any real weight. It the end, I guess it would be just an underhanded attempt to force players to buy the expansion, similar to micro-transition content.

[GeneralSGJist]

hmmm ya, some people like expansions since they mess with existing past stats, also things may not balance properly in the originally game since in tehe expansion, there would be new features (units, upgrades, powers, etc.) and potentially new mechanics.

[CrazyGDIfan123`]

only thing id as for is expansion and vanilla players should share the same online lobby, where games could be hosted in either vanilla mode or expansion mode.
vanilla players only have the option of joining vanilla hosted games, while expansion players have the option of joining either type.

the games themselves should be different , and should receive separate patching

[DeHeerser]

Also see: http://www.commandandconquer.com/forums/showthread.php?2044-The-mindset-of-the-developers-and-their-business-plan

Edit: Since the use of expansion is also elaborated there.

[Leyvin]

I agree with this and would go on to say that there should be a full modification SDK released with the game.
While every single C&C has had an expansion pack or DLC as they're now termed, I think that really what many developers seem to overlook is the community who want to have the ability to expand themselves.

This is well evidenced by the mods made for the C&C games to date, that for the most part the communties have had to back-engineer to a degree to achieve what they want to. If the community had the ability out-of-the-box to be able to add new units (models, media, effects and stats), new maps and create cut-scenes (similar to C&C Generals) then I think we'd see a massive rise in content to keep people interested even between the official DLC packs.

[Noodlesocks]

Having both the main game and expansion follow the same rules and play out in the same matches sounds awfully restrictive. It would be extremely difficult to add extensive changes or give new units any real weight. It the end, I guess it would be just an underhanded attempt to force players to buy the expansion, similar to micro-transition content.

All they'd have to do is let everyone have the new units for the core armies while only people with the expansion can play as the new army.

[Golan2781]

They only ever added a new faction in YR.

[Noodlesocks]

They only ever added a new faction in YR.

We're talking about the next C&C.

[Golan2781]

I mean it's quite unlikely that the case you described can ever occur, seeing that they only once added a new faction.

[Plasticz]

If you look at Age of Empires III, they did a similar thing. You purchased AOE3, then one or both of the expansions. If I have the Asian Dynasties in the cd (or dvd)-drive, and had The Warchiefs (They are the expansion packs) installed, I can play as any of the civilisations and play any of the missions from any of the expansions\vanilla.

If you only had vanilla, on multiplayer you only played against people who were playing vanilla.

I approve.

[Klandri]

Sounds very good, this is kind of a must, now that I know of the idea.

[Commander_McNash]

A good Idea may be to work with new subfactions and factions, and then if you add a new unit for a vanilla faction it may be added via patch to all players.
Dawn of War 2 is an excellent example, they simply updated the vanilla armies for all the gamers and then made chaos available as a playable faction only for those who bought Chaos Rising.

This also will keep the vanilla games and previous expansions well patched since all is integrated in the same game model

[EvilConker]

Naw, the balance would just get hit too hard, and I'm sick and tired of the "limited" expansions we've seen lately in all forms of gaming.

I yearn for the Yuri's Revenge or Zero Hour days when an expansion could really switch things up.

[Stylsy]

Naw, the balance would just get hit too hard

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

If you add new factions and/or some new units into the mix with an expansion, the balance would be tweaked with the existing factions to ensure the balance was there. Why couldn't this be done with the vanilla game rather than having it separate?

[Golan2781]

Because the vanilla game balance would have to factor in units that aren't in the vanilla game, i.e. you have to factor in artificial restrictions. This limits what you can add, e.g. let's say the expansion adds a dedicated AA unit to a faction then aircraft get boosted to remain efficient - in the default game, said AA unit wouldn't exist but the aircrafts would keep their boost, thereby creating an imbalance. This means the additions of an expansion must be self-consistently balanced so you are limited in how far the original arsenal can be expanded.

[Incia]

So the one with the expansion would simply see both games in the lobby?
So if one player with the expansion went into a vanilla game in the lobby and start the game, then BOTH of them would simply play the vanilla game?
So there shouldn't be any problems with balance, as you see.

[Golan2781]

Balance as in "both have the same options" - in a mirror match, yes. Balance as in "every unit is viable and nothing is overpowered" - very likely no.
Games are (or: should be) balanced with the entire unit roster in mind. Cutting out a part of it will automatically make the units stronger the cut unit was good at countering.

[Stylsy]

Ah I see what you are saying. I think to avoid that problem whatever additional units that are being added to the vanilla factions would have to be included in a patch to go alongside the expansion (I think KW only added 2 or 3 excluding the super units anyway) so you don't miss part of the arsenal if you are playing the game with just the original sides.

I suppose another argument would be if such sweeping balance changes were made it could badly affect existing single player missions, however I seem to recall 1.09 making one of TW's GDI missions alot more difficult anyway.