Balancing Yuri's Revenge

[Commander_McNash]

Ok, I know there is almost no chance a patch would ever come for this game, but I really wanted to see what balances people will add to this game, here are my ideas:

Overall changes:

-Added ingame setting options for widescreen.
-No structure cheaper than 1500 gives construction ratio, this may stop basecrawling up to a point.
-Barracks can now be garrisoned to allow units to get healed.
-All Superweapons have now their loading time doubled, this is to encourage people to allow them during multiplayer matches.

Allies:
-Grizzly battle tank hp increased by 15%, this will allow allied players to have more options to strike during the middle stages of the game.
-German Tank Destroyer attack increased in 25% in order to make it more useful.
-France Grand Cannon now costs $2500.
-Repair IFV cannot longer remove terror drones.
-Battlefortress garrisoned units no longer earn a bonus range or rate of fire, this is in order to stop them of being capable to outrange enemy defenses and force them to engage enemy units.
-To compensate Battlefortress can now autorepair at a slow rate, allowing it to survive close combat.
-Mirage tank has now grizzly-like armour, allowing it to survive radioactive exposition and antinfantry ammo.
-Whenever you teleport a unit with the chronosphere over an enemy unit both of them are destroyed unless the enemy is infantry, this is in order to avoid abuse from this tactic.
-Dolphin cost increased to $750, now it requires to attack 3 time a squid to remove it from a targeted unit, this should decrease the possibility to spam them.
-Osprey's destroyer is no longer targetable,allowing it to work correctly as an antisub unit.
-The Destroyer cannon now has 20% more range, making it useful for middle game for sea oriented assaults.
-SEALs now have 1 sec of reload time before attacking again (even inside a BF).
-Tanya has now 100% more hp and can autoheal.

Soviets:
-Rhino tanks now cost $1000, this is to avoid them from being spammed so easily and also allow the other factions to have a better chance against soviets early game.
-Flaktracks cannot longer crush infantry.
-Tesla troopers now have a range similar to the grizzly tanks, allowing them to better fullfil their role as antitank infantry.
-Terrorist explosion no longer damage allied units and have the same amount of armour and hp as a conscript, let's be honest, they are one of the most useless units in this game.
-V3 missile speed increased by 50 per cent, making it more efficient when attacking and allowing it to score some damage.
-Demo truck armour and hp increased to the level of a rhino tank.
-Boris hp increased in 100 percent, he can now autoheal.

Yuri:
-Brutes speed increased to that of a a lasher tank, while they are an indirect way to get cash with the genetic mutator it's also true they are mostly useless as an antitank unit.
-Yuri Clones now require a direct order from the player to mind control an enemy, hp decreased in 25%.
-Units controlled by the psychic tower now will go free from mind control if moved beyond the control range of the tower.
-Psychic tower costs now $2000.
-Mastermind hp reduced in 25%.
-Boomer cost now $2250, this is to make it harder to spam it.
-Flying disk now cost $2000 to make it less affordable.
-Yuri Prime cannot be cloned, in order to avoid abuse of his mind control abilities.

And that's it, my goal was to nerf some overused tactics at this game like battlefortress+guardian GI+SEAL combo vs rhino tank spam and base crawling, particularly for France, which Gran Cannon now also costs 2500.

On the other hand I also buffed some units which rarely appear in the game, like the terrorist, brutes and destroyer ships, the idea is to make them more useful in order to diversify tactics, for example now a terrorist rush is possible without the need to micro flaktraks on the enemy base, a demo truck has more chances to reach the enemy lines if undetected and with no need of an iron courtain, the tank destroyer and tesla trooper are now valid options.

Overall I buffed allies middle game, nerfed them in late game (the BF nerf was key to achieve this), nerfed the soviet in middle game (rhinos dominate this stage forcing the no rush condition) and nerfed Yuri faction to make it tolerable.

Hope you find this interesting, I would like to see your own suggestions :cool:

[Alex06]

Meh, still imba, if you ask me.

[ALRAB00]

agreed with all of it but that grand cannon needs to be 3000 really
its A grand cannon kills every thing in his sight tanks solders buildings anything
so it should cost 3000 dont forget that damn high range
:D thats the best one

[Kanesbestfriend]

Yuri is supposed to be OP

[SpeederMO]

Yuri is supposed to be OP

No. His side was just poorly balanced.

[Commander_McNash]

Ok, I am back, I have been working with the balances into a mod (thanks MooMan65 for all the support extracting the data) and so far it seems things look good.

I will tray to upload it so you guys can test it.

The list of changes are extensive but here are some changes:

General:

-no structure with $1000 or less gives construction area (byebye base crawling)
-All refineries now have some extra hp (this is due some edits with the harriers and balck eagles)
-Battle Labs now cost $4000, double energy requirement and double hp to compensate for the investment.
-tech buildings hp increased in aprox 100%
-Still working on the superweapons, cost increase maybe? Not sure how to increase the loading rate of the powers.

Allies:

General idea:

Allies were particularly prone to basecrawling and a heavily OP tier 3 units, the battlefortress+GGI combo becoming (sometimes the only) tactic for them, I have worked to remove the chances for them to basecrawl (along with any other faction but they were particularly good at that) and force the battlefortress+GGI combo to be less OP, it's still excellent against vehicles but it cant longer outrange defenses (prism tanks are still an excellent option), also the SEAL no longer makes all otehr infantry at the game useless due reduced rate of fire.

The allies now has some good air tactics available thanks to the bonus given to air units, also the tank destroyer has become an excellent option for middle stages of the game for fighting enemy armour. The mirage tank is back and the destroyer ship too, so you may give them a tray, Tanya is now considerably more ressilient, finally, dolphins being more expensive they are again mor a support unit than a spammable horde.

-Grizzly tank now has 15% extra hp.
-2 Harriers can now kill a rhino in one shoot, attack range increased, making them excellent as middle stage support units.
-Black Eagle attack power increased in 33% and attack range increased in 20% (in correlation with the harrier so it's still a better option)
-French Grand Cannon cost increased to $3000
-Guardian GI has its range reduced in 15%, hp increased, this was due the abuse of the BF+GGI combo, now it no longer outrange defensive structures.
-Battlefortress hp increased by 15% to make it more battle oriented, added autorepair, cost increased to $2500, its still a good option but no longer OP and capable to outrange tier 2 defenses.
-SEAL rate of fire decreased to a third, still excellent as against antinfantry but now other factions can tray to use massed infantry against allieds.
-Elite Sniper and Sniper IFV rate of fire decreased considerably for similar reasons as seen above.
-Destroyer ship now has 25% more range of attack, making it excellent for naval assaults, osprey Antisubmarines hp increased 4 times (to give you an idea, it now requires 3 shoots of the allied SAM to be destroyed)
-Night Hawk damage output icnreased in aprox %50, with that damage outpot it can destroy a building even if its being repaired (it's still hard to manouver it so you may still find some use to the rocketeers).
-Tank Destroyers now have 20% more range and can kill a rhino in three shoots due a major damage output.
-Mirage Tanks now have heavy armour, making them highly ressilient against antilight units attacks, radiation, flak, etc.
-Tanya HP increased by 333% and can autoheal, she can basically jump into an enemy base and do some considerable damage before getting killed. so now it's worth those $1500.
-Repair IFV repair output decreased to 50%, has major rate of repair but heals less.
-Dolphin cost increased to $750.

Soviets:

General idea:

The soviets are almost unbeatable at middle stage of the game, this is thanks to the rhino tank spam supported sometimes by a flak track, and on tier 3 they simply keep building more rhinos most of the time, I have worked to reduce the efficiency of the rhinos, on the other hand complementary units like the tesla trooper required some love since it was virtually useless as antitank due short range, so the faction wont lose defensive early capabilities, I have given some upgrades to the V3 launcher (still not as good as RA3 counterpart) and the siege copter, so this faction can now have some great artillery.

Suicide units can now survive enough to do some damage to the enemy, can be used in a new array of situations and some of them are no longer counterproductive due friendly damage.

Finally Boris and the spy plane have some improvements, giving the soviets better support powers and, like the allies a hero unit worth his cost.

-Rhino tank cost now increased to $1100, so if you want to spam them now you will have to pay some extra cash, all other stats remain.
-Flak track now cant crush infantry, this reduces considerably its effectivity at rushes, while it still has a decent chance.
-Tesla Trooper hp and range increased in 20%, now it doesnt have to chase enemy vehicles and can actually survive some considerable damage.
-Tesla tank range increased in 20%, it now can work better for middle stage assaults.
-V3 Launcher hp increased by 33% rate of fire increased by 25%, the rocket now requires 3 shoots from a guardian GI or two of a patriot to be destroyed, cost increased to $900 so it now can be used along with the rhino instead of, well, just build more rhinos.
-Siege copter machine gun output increased in 50%, deployed range increased in 15%, now can autorepair, but has 20% less hp, cost increased to original $1400, it no longer needs to expose itself to enemy fire and can work as a harasser flying unit, but wil have some problems against antivehicle fire, so, take care of your artillery.
-The cuban terrorist now has 33% more hp, 20% more speed, doesnt damage friendly units on death and have more damage output against vehicles (3 of them can kill a grizzly tank), while still fragile against enemy units like GIs, conscripts and initiates now they can be used to decimate enemy formations and in great numbers deal some pretty damage against enemy bases.
-Crazy Ivan death no longer damages friendly units.
-Demo truck has now the same hp and armour states as a rhino tank, feel free to deliver it to your enemy's base.
-Terror drone hp increased in 50%, still weak, but not so much.
-Tesla Coil range increased in 15%, damage rate of fire slightly decreased to compensate.
-Boris HP increased 3 times and damage output increased in 30%, his migs have now more hp, range and speed (can survive 3 shoots of a patriot turret), real tough guy!
-Spy Plane Hp increased in 25% and speed in 10%, now it can actually survive an incursion against a heavily defended base (the other factions still have the upper hand when it's about intelligence).

Yuri:

General idea:

Man! Yuri is such an awesome faction, it was so sad to find most of its awesomeness came of the fact of being so terribly OP no one wanted to allow a Yuri player in their parties, so this faction has needed some major tweaks related with cost, mind control, on the other side, Yuri is very weak during the early game, which is the reason why I decided to upgrade some of their antiarmour tier 1 units, worry not, most of the problems came from the tier 2 and 3 units, which now will require a lot more of cash an micro to be used, a great challenge for microers.

-Lasher tank now costs $600, before you hang me remember, this unit is going to be needed to compensate Yuri's heavily nerfed units.
-The brute now is 15% faster, has 33% more hp and slightly more range, so it can actually work as more than an easy way to get extra cash with the genetic mutator (And now the nerf...)
-Gatling cannon now costs $1200
-Yuri's tower now cost $2000, hp decreased in 30%, rate of fire decreased in 50%, still automatic, and still dangerous, but no longer OP.
-Virus RoF decreased in 50%.
-Yuri clones cannot longer control a unit unless given the order by the player, hp decresed in 25%, still can retaliate.
-Magnetron cost increased to $1400.
-Mastermind HP decreased in 33%, cost increased to $2500.
-Floating Disk now costs $2500, still have all its values so it's still deadly if you can infiltrate one on your enemy's base.
-Boomer now costs $3000, hp decreased in 25%.

Final thoughs: As a general rule of fact I nerfed the units more (over)used in the game and buffed those which rarely appear, perhaps the hardest part of balancing Yuri's Revenge is to keep it funny and still open to huge masses of units without losing the variety of tactics, sure, it's funny to build a huge army, but it gets boring when it's composed of the same units and you are forced to use the same tactics over and over again, the idea is to open new strategic possibilities for every faction, or increase the challenge of some already known tactics, Yuri in particular will be more demanding since it now requires you to think a bit more, same with every other faction.

I will tray to upload soon the mod so you can test it by yourselves, not sure if using megaupload may be a good idea, what do you think?

[SpeederMO]

-no structure with $1000 or less gives construction area (byebye base crawling)

And what if you have to construct 2x2 structure to get to a place where you could place a War Factory? With this thing most of 2x2 structures no longer provide build radius.


-Battle Labs now cost $4000, double energy requirement and double hp to compensate for the investment.

Why delay T3 in YR?


-French Grand Cannon cost increased to $3000

I think that placing Grand Cannons on T3 is a better idea. Maybe 2500$.


-Battlefortress hp increased by 15% to make it more battle oriented, added autorepair, cost increased to $2500, its still a good option but no longer OP and capable to outrange tier 2 defenses.

Selfheal doesn't sound like a good idea for this unit, it'd be good if you decreased bonuses BF gives to the infantry inside.


-Mirage Tanks now have heavy armour, making them highly ressilient against antilight units attacks, radiation, flak, etc.

A buff is one thing that Mirage Tank definitely does NOT need.


-Rhino tank cost now increased to $1100, so if you want to spam them now you will have to pay some extra cash, all other stats remain.

1100$ for a basic tank? Oh God. Make other options more atractive to build, don't increase price of the Rhino Tank.


-Flak track now cant crush infantry, this reduces considerably its effectivity at rushes, while it still has a decent chance.

This does make sense if all AA T1 vehicles can't crush infantry. AFAIK Gatling Tank and IFV can't by default.


-Siege copter machine gun output increased in 50%, deployed range increased in 15%, now can autorepair, but has 20% less hp, cost increased to original $1400, it no longer needs to expose itself to enemy fire and can work as a harasser flying unit, but wil have some problems against antivehicle fire, so, take care of your artillery.

Again - you upgraded a unit which doesn't need an upgrade. Siege Choppers are already powerful.


-Demo truck has now the same hp and armour states as a rhino tank, feel free to deliver it to your enemy's base.

Add the explode-on-deploy command so that it doesn't need a target or force-fire to explode faster.


-The brute now is 15% faster, has 33% more hp and slightly more range, so it can actually work as more than an easy way to get extra cash with the genetic mutator (And now the nerf...)

Make a clone of BRUTE entry which will work as the Brute that comes from the mutation. Make this clone's price low enough so that Yuri player can't receive free money from mutating spawned troops like Slaves into big amounts of Brutes.


-Gatling cannon now costs $1200

You're making defense (well, definitely this one) more useless than it was.


-Virus RoF decreased in 50%.

Not sure about sniper units buffs.. they already make infantry battles a horror.


-Mastermind HP decreased in 33%, cost increased to $2500.

What.


-Floating Disk now costs $2500, still have all its values so it's still deadly if you can infiltrate one on your enemy's base.

WHAT. Man, you can't fix Yuri's T3 by just increasing prices of the good units he has. If it was possible this way, people would've been playing some kind of unofficial patch for a long time. For example, Magnetron needs more than that - for example the fact that it can drop enemy units on their buildings and destroy them instantly still makes them No. 1 hated unit, even when they cost 1400$.


-Boomer now costs $3000, hp decreased in 25%.

Na, Yuri's navy can't be fixed like that. First of all, Yuri does need a basic ship - he needs a Psychic Sensor to receive a unit from the shipyard. Also, Boomer is still a powerful sonuvabitch that IMO should be available at T3 (Battle Lab) and not at T2 Psychic Sensor. WW were just lazy to do this right.

Also, I suggest nerfing the Grinder vs vehicles by making Soylent value half of the original unit price. This way Industrial Plant + Grinder can't be used for additional money. And if you're making a balance mod, make sure you include Marshall's 1.002 UMP bugfixes.

[DavyCrockett]

@Commander_McNash

Imo most of your changes to the Allies and Sowjets are unnecessary. Yes, the V3 (or better said its rocket), the Tank destroyer and the suicide units could use some good buffs, but besides that, most things with the Allied and Sowjet units don't need any big changes. Especially your general changes don't make much sense.

Also Yuri is broken beyond repair and it wouldn't be possible to balance that faction with a simple patch.


Na, Yuri's navy can't be fixed like that. First of all, Yuri does need a basic ship - he needs a Psychic Sensor to receive a unit from the shipyard. Also, Boomer is still a powerful sonuva***** that IMO should be available at T3 (Battle Lab) and not at T2 Psychic Sensor.

He doesn't only need a basic ship. He also needs some naval anti-air.

[Wlof25]

I like your balance changes as you said you want to stop overuse and spam.
And it is also interesting to me because I am also currently working on rulesmd and balancing on my perception....but new to all of this and it is slow :D
For example i am working that infantry become more useful then before,then I want to change Yuri faction from scrap.

Well I really dont want to write all changes and details on what I am working but we both have similar ideas but little different done.
Now dogs cant attack/kill units with plate armor (tesla trooper,brute,desolator.... and now chrono Legionnaire)

Seal now have like one third of original attack and need to attack twice to kill single soldier,when they are elite,they get their one shot,one kill attack
so in that way they are good but as combined with army and not like one man army.

Tesla trooper is mostly the same except they are now doing 200% against steel armor (defense structures) and now they are good and useful in siege

Guardian GI is now more useful and diverse in combat,+1 on speed and +1 on range of their first attack,with same having bonus damage on infantry,
while second rocket attack have minus damage on infantry and have plus damage on buildings and big bonus on steel armor.
Which means player will have to micro them in infantry/tank/buildings situations.

Defense structures have increased power cost ,along with some of building
I allways thought that gap generator was overpowerd so now it have 200 power cost
In that way....bigger base needs more power plants....more power plants,more weak points.


Anyway if you are finished with that patch,let me know :)

[Moskvin96]

in the mod mental omega the factions are balancing

[eatcow0]

I almost wouldn't bother with trying to patch yuri. It would be hard to enforce it and even though i rarely play yuri online, i rarely see people on it. If you use TibEd for modding maps, you can export the code to all your fav maps. Just use teh xcc and extract them. Just rename them like Bay of Pigs Modded (2-6) or something, make them unofficial in final alert 2, then zip them all up and party. I modded some of the 8 player maps so you can build 3 industrial plants etc, also made the AI harder on some :P

[Kane_J]

No No No! that just make the game harder, not more balanced.

PS: the factions were already balanced before you posted this. to me

[LegendWyn]

Don't overnerf Yuri...

Anyway, this game is made with fun in mind, not balance/competitive scenes, so some unit concept are quite broken. You might need to consider changing some other attribute of the units (such as decreasing it's blast radius, reducing effectiveness against infantries...) instead of tweaking only with Ore and HP.

[DarkMastero]

You shouldn't increase price or power for Battle Labs. It is already hard enough to go to late game tech.

I really don't think Grand Cannons need to be nurfed either. They already have so many drawbacks (min range, slow rate of rotation, requires power, no anti-air, low hit points).

Yuri is statistically the most overpowered faction. This is largely because of the Magnetron and Boomer. The Magnetron should require a Battle Lab. The fact that it can instantly kill miners by dropping them on impassable terrain makes them over powered by itself. Then when you factor in that it is middle game ranged siege unit makes it even worse. I agree the Boomer just needs a price and build time increase. $3000 is a bit to harsh though. Maybe just $2500.

I don't think requiring the Yuri Clone to be instructed to mind control would be a good idea since that would make them too hard to use.

If your going to increase the price of Psychic Towers I would recommend not having them lose control of enemy units to far away since that may make them underpowered.

Slave Miner should have it's HP lowered. It is much more difficult to harass them then it is War Miners or Chrono Miners.

The Bio Reactor should have ether it's initial power lowers or it's bonus power per infantry lowered, or have it's price and built time increased. A full Bio Reactor can power a Barracks, War Factory, Psychic Radar, Battle Lab, and Genetic Mutator. (The fact that the Slave Miner requires no power gives Yuri an edge also.) A Bio Reactor costs only $600 and Yuri's cheapest infantry, the Initiate, costs $200 each. So for $1600 Yuri gets all that power and without having to tie up his Construction Yard's queue with a second power structure. And that's if he doesn't use mind controlled enemy infantry (or civilians on some maps).

Chaos Drone's effect should go back to the way it was (affected units attack whatever is closest). Having them attack only enemies make it to easy to gas them and run by.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Desolator. Iraq was the most unbalanced country in RA2 and second most unbalanced in YR (after Yuri). Desolators should defiantly require a Battle Lab.

I also agree Destroyers need a buff. That fact that Allied players fall back on Dolphins is clear proof of this. Making the Osprey untraceable would help since their main fault is they can't stand up to a mix of Typhoons and Sea Scorpions. A more realistic solution would be to have them able to out range Sea Scorpions.

Increasing the V3 Rocket's speed, longer range for Telsa Troopers and Terrorist not damaging friendly units is be a good idea.

Demolition Trucks and SEALs should no longer give an announcement when created as they only work when the opponent doesn't see them. It adds value to scouting.

Chrono Legionnaire should have their price reduced to about $1500. As it stands they really arn't work making over Rocketeers and Grizzelys.

I don't see any reason to nurf Battle Fortresses. Once you take into consideration the costs of both it and the infantry to load into them they are expensive.

For the Tank Destroyer you should just give it greater range and make it do splash damage.

Robot Tanks should deal more damage vs vehicles and buildings so they can fight off Masterminds and Psychic Towers easier.

[Wlof25]

...


I dont find Desolator too overpowered,true he can melt infantry and use are of effect radiation but that radiation is two sided sword can effect your units too.
Desolator cant attack buildings and tanks (have very low damage on tanks,basically make him useless) unless he deploy.

I think demolition trucks need announcement because one of those can destroy half of your base if get through and if you are not prepared and warned.
Seals just need some serious nerfing,they are like mini commando.
Battle fortress needs some nerfing crushing over miners and Apocalypse Tank is not acceptable.

[DarkMastero]

The Desolator's deploy effect is what makes them OP. When two of them deploy they can destroy almost any vehicle in seconds. Coupled with the absurd range of the effect (they even out-range Prism Tanks) and the fact that Terror Drones are immune to this effect making it possible to protect the Desolator against vehicles. Thanks the the Desolator's high HP it takes two hits from a Harrier to take it out making it difficult to beat them with air either.

The Demolition Truck only works if it takes your opponent by surprise. It's low HP and the fact that it self-destructs when destroyed makes it difficult to defend. Any Allied player will just bomb it with Harriers. And it's easy to just rush a tank at it destroying it and crippling whatever units the enemy was trying to guard it with. The Demolition Truck will only destroy War Factories and Ore Refineries if it explodes next to them. Otherwise it only damages them.

NAVY Seals are also easy to stop. Flank Tracks, IFVs with GI's loaded, and Gattling Tanks take them out in seconds on land as Sea Scorpion and Dolphins do on water. They also can't get past most base defenses. And removing the warnings adds value to scouting. The warning should only be used for units they are both difficult to stop and do heavy damage fast (Kirov Airship, Boomers, and Floating Discs).

Battle Fortresses are tier 3 units so it is okay for them to kill miners easily since they are suppose to be game enders. To be honest they are so slow you really can't count on their crushing ability much. Sure you may catch a miner off guard and squish it but most vehicles will just pull back. A Battle Fortress costs $2000 and Guardian GI costs $400 each and a NAVY Seal costs $1000. So for a Battle Fortress loaded with four Guardian GI and one Navy Seal would cost $4600. On contrast an Apocalypse Tank costs only $1750.

[Wlof25]

The Desolator's deploy effect is what makes them OP. When two of them deploy they can destroy almost any vehicle in seconds. Coupled with the absurd range of the effect (they even out-range Prism Tanks) and the fact that Terror Drones are immune to this effect making it possible to protect the Desolator against vehicles. Thanks the the Desolator's high HP it takes two hits from a Harrier to take it out making it difficult to beat them with air either.

The Demolition Truck only works if it takes your opponent by surprise. It's low HP and the fact that it self-destructs when destroyed makes it difficult to defend. Any Allied player will just bomb it with Harriers. And it's easy to just rush a tank at it destroying it and crippling whatever units the enemy was trying to guard it with. The Demolition Truck will only destroy War Factories and Ore Refineries if it explodes next to them. Otherwise it only damages them.

NAVY Seals are also easy to stop. Flank Tracks, IFVs with GI's loaded, and Gattling Tanks take them out in seconds on land as Sea Scorpion and Dolphins do on water. They also can't get past most base defenses. And removing the warnings adds value to scouting. The warning should only be used for units they are both difficult to stop and do heavy damage fast (Kirov Airship, Boomers, and Floating Discs).

Battle Fortresses are tier 3 units so it is okay for them to kill miners easily since they are suppose to be game enders. To be honest they are so slow you really can't count on their crushing ability much. Sure you may catch a miner off guard and squish it but most vehicles will just pull back. A Battle Fortress costs $2000 and Guardian GI costs $400 each and a NAVY Seal costs $1000. So for a Battle Fortress loaded with four Guardian GI and one Navy Seal would cost $4600. On contrast an Apocalypse Tank costs only $1750.

I dont agree.
Only one Harrier is enough for one Desolator.
Yes,their range can out range prism tanks but still prisms can kill them.
Then it is not true that they destroy almost any vehicle in seconds,Prism tank have low HP and "small" armor and it can kill Desolator and still live with 50% of HP,then for lvl1 tanks,Desolator needs to deploy like 2-3 times,on Apocalypse over 5 times.
I checked right now in game and 3 Flak Trucks can kill 3 deployed Desolator.
They have their own flaws,radiation can damage their own units,lame damage against tank and no attack on buildings...

yes it is true that Demo Truck have low HP but still if you get him into enemy base and destroy not just War Factories and Ore Refineries...also Power Plants,Barracks,Battle Labs,Radars....so one unit in value of 1500$ have potential to do damage in value over 5000$ and not just that you cripple your enemy for time to replace those buildings.
What about Iron Curtain? 4 of them can destroy everything except "concrete" armor buildings (CY,Superweapon)
And 5 of them can destroy your whole base.....I find that worth of warring.
Then I dont know for rest of players but I use them in combination with Howe Craft....4 Demo trucks can be load there and HC is amphibious and have nice HP and boom.

Seals....it is just strange to me how you dont find them OP...
1000$ soldier who put almost all infantry to shame....with 1000$ you can slaughter soldiers,destroy any building in a blink of an eye if come close,same for ships....only weakness are tanks....
No,those examples are not easy,you just give me list of anti infantry tanks.
Only none command unit who can beat them barely are Desolators (with last red square of HP) and only reason why Dolphins can stop them is it because they have tank armor.

It is true that Battle Fortresses are more expensive with infantry but that is why it is so powerful.
if you destroy them,all infantry get out with 100% HP and if you put sniper or seal inside,infantry can say bye bye.
If you put Chrono Legionnaire inside,he can "freeze" anything what is close to him.....and still can move as I remember but it cant move out of Chrono Legionnaire range,that will stop it...
Battle Fortresses with Guardian GI's have superior range then Prisms tower and Tesla coil range as I remember correctly and can move and shoot at the same time,what Apocalypse cant.
Then that crushing part...Miners are protected from most physical damage,radiation and even psionics and then come unit and take a dump on all of that and just crush over them...
It is ok to me to crush walls and other tanks but Apocalypse and Miners not.

[DarkMastero]

Just to show the statistics here is the RA2 ladder page:
http://xwis.net/ra2/

and the Yuri's Revenge ladder page:
http://xwis.net/yr/

As you can see it is exceptionally rare for anyone to play any Soviet faction other then Iraq in competitive games. Naturally Yuri's faction is also high on the list (in-spite of all the "no Yuri" rules in games). America appears somewhat high also (for early Paradrop rush tactics). Here is a breakdown for this month's top player country picks:
Red Alert 2-
Iraq: 481
America: 161
Russia: 2
France: 2
Korea: 1
Libya: 0
Cuba: 0
Germany: 0
Britian: 0


Yuri's Revenge-
Iraq: 160
Yuri: 79
America: 2
France: 1
Germany: 1
Libya: 0
Cuba: 0
Russia: 0
Korea: 0
Britian: 0

Why do you think the top players like to pick Iraq so much? They only have one unit the other Soviet factions don't have.

[Wlof25]

Just to show the statistics here is the RA2 ladder page:
http://xwis.net/ra2/

and the Yuri's Revenge ladder page:
http://xwis.net/yr/

As you can see it is exceptionally rare for anyone to play any Soviet faction other then Iraq in competitive games. Naturally Yuri's faction is also high on the list (in-spite of all the "no Yuri" rules in games). America appears somewhat high also (for early Paradrop rush tactics). Here is a breakdown for this month's top player country picks:
Red Alert 2-
Iraq: 481
America: 161
Russia: 2
France: 2
Korea: 1
Libya: 0
Cuba: 0
Germany: 0
Britian: 0


Yuri's Revenge-
Iraq: 160
Yuri: 79
America: 2
France: 1
Germany: 1
Libya: 0
Cuba: 0
Russia: 0
Korea: 0
Britian: 0

Why do you think the top players like to pick Iraq so much? They only have one unit the other Soviet factions don't have.


RA2 is broken in balance in so many ways for example in competitive games as I know who play with Soviets and Allies always mass rhino (for soviet) and grizzly (for allies).
That can be just one example how can Desolator can be abused in all ready abused tactics of spamming tanks.
I dont see any issue there,game balance is broken,players abuse that and use tactics (unit (Desolator)) good with that abuse.
If navy seal could be good against tank,everybody will abuse them too in tank spam battles.