Please, No more GLA aircrafts

[Cinderella_EX]

When I saw the GLA aircraft I was shocked

I can accept an Orca-like chopper for EU

but GLA has with both tunnels and Enable-build aircrafts there will be no balance in the game

either tunnel or aircraft

so please REMOVE that then bring the toxin tractor back.

[zRad]

damn u already played the game to know there are tunnels? how do I get in the beta too??

[GammaCobra]

If you don't want the GLA to have an air force, then the GLA should have a powerful AA weaponary to control the skies. Besides the GLA already has a small air force. Ever heard of the Anthrax Bomb ?

[Cinderella_EX]

If you don't want the GLA to have an air force, then the GLA should have a powerful AA weaponary to control the skies. Besides the GLA already has a small air force. Ever heard of the Anthrax Bomb ?

I can accept GLA plane throwing Anthrax Bomb

But I can't accept Enable-build airforces

[WeedWhacker92]

Why not give them a few aircraft? Crop dusters with toxin nozzles sounds right up their alley, and how do you know they DON'T have the toxin tractor already? Or even Tunnels for that matter?


Besides the GLA already has a small air force. Ever heard of the Anthrax Bomb ?

Right-o, they must have some sort of aircraft, and think how easy it would be to steal borrow a few/get a few do-it-yourself aircraft kits? My neighbor has already built 2 ultralights in his backyard by himself.

[Alaskan_Viking]

I don't think it will be Op if they give GLA one or two weak attack air units (transport air units would be more OP for them IMHO), I am kind of concerned about the absolute over the top Starcraft level cartoony'ness of a flying crop duster as a CAS aircraft though...I think a Cessna 182 type general aviation/recon plane that throws chemicals out the side would be cooler.

[WeedWhacker92]

I don't think it will be Op if they give GLA one or two weak attack air units (transport air units would be more OP for them IMHO), I am kind of concerned about the absolute over the top Starcraft level cartoony'ness of a flying crop duster as a CAS aircraft though...I think a Cessna 182 type general aviation/recon plane that throws chemicals out the side would be cooler.

So, a helicopter toxin crop duster is cartoony, but a fixed wing toxin crop duster isn't?

[Alaskan_Viking]

So, a helicopter toxin crop duster is cartoony, but a fixed wing toxin crop duster isn't?

Yes, fixed when light planes are cheaper and less vulnerable.

Hell, why not an old Mig-15 with rockets?

[AgentOrange]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the GLA air force is going to be that small that they won't even have a dedicated aircraft building, they might be built from the war factory.

Besides... that heli looks so flimsy I could destroy it with my left eyebrow.

[Kermanit]

What ...where did you see the Gla aircraft ??

[Fxor]

It's ten year in the future.

Respect EA's development ideas.

Criticism after please.

[Corny]

It's ten year in the future.

Respect EA's development ideas.

Criticism after please.

What he said, give it time.

[Existor]

Man, play game and then create threads, what cna be imbalanced or not. What if GLA got aircraft AND tunnels, when other races will have alternatives vs tunnel network? Like unit transporting (like in C&C3, where every tank can be transported by air), or unit speed boosters, or mobile warfactories, or special drop zones (you're putting units at your home base and droping them from the space to targeted location for some cost)

[Kodaemon.]

What ...where did you see the Gla aircraft ??

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9800/commandconquergenerals2.jpg

[SpeederMO]

I'm all for several low-tech aircraft for GLA. It worked nicely in several Zero Hour mods.

[stephanovich]

Overreacting much?

[Kermanit]

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9800/commandconquergenerals2.jpg

Woot..keep yer heads low boys..gonna be buzzing them

[bandit_king2010]

theres no aircraft for GLA.i dunno how you tell this.in the trailer there was no aircraft for GLA it was only Europe ones.

[stephanovich]

theres no aircraft for GLA.i dunno how you tell this.in the trailer there was no aircraft for GLA it was only Europe ones.

Look at the picture juuuuuuuuuuuuuust above your post.

[bandit_king2010]

no its good.toxic aircraft would be fun and balanced.

[Commander32]

I'm all for several low-tech aircraft for GLA. It worked nicely in several Zero Hour mods.

That Toxin Crop Duster fits very well IMO. The GLA can use just a few Aircrafts, thats all.

[Stewox_C]

Small aircrafts for special ability-mission stuff are just fine to be buildable

GLA should focus more on off-map aircraft which require the GLA army of scraper workers to assemble something up like it feels more authentic the way they would do it.

Or some kind of worker ability to call many and re-scrap the enemy crashed aircraft, for example to assemble one airplane you need to loot 3-4 aircraft parts but it all depends on which aircraft you scrapped and i think the GLA airfield could be a huge scrap-shop where you can see parts and assemble planes ingame hah... not too much away from strategy though.

So basically if there's no enemy aircraft --- gla has no other aircraft on the airfield except the crop-duster and maybe a flying terrorist on the propeller-wing or something hah.

[sgtmyers88]

If you don't like them helicopter thingys to be buildable, well for all we know they may function like the A10 strike.

[Lonely_guy]

i don't see anything wrong with the ''toxin thrower heli thingy''
but i really would have liked a suicide aircraft more

[PizzaAtomica]

but GLA has with both tunnels and Enable-build aircrafts there will be no balance in the game

What if the aircraft cost $20.000 each and a tunnel costs $40.000. The aircraft will be super flimsy and only work against infantry, and any units will take at least ten minutes in-game to travel through a tunnel.

Seriously I don't get how some people think they can tell something will be imbalanced when they don't know ANY of the statistics.

[Nerdfish]

GLA aircraft is not as bad an idea as some might think. it gives AA units from other factions something to do when playing against GLA :D

[Commander32]

What if the aircraft cost $20.000 each and a tunnel costs $40.000. The aircraft will be super flimsy and only work against infantry, and any units will take at least ten minutes in-game to travel through a tunnel.

Seriously I don't get how some people think they can tell something will be imbalanced when they don't know ANY of the statistics.

Yeap...

[Kyang]

When I saw the GLA aircraft I was shocked

I can accept an Orca-like chopper for EU

but GLA has with both tunnels and Enable-build aircrafts there will be no balance in the game

either tunnel or aircraft

so please REMOVE that then bring the toxin tractor back.


Do you have a reason other than you, "can't accept" it?

[Noodlesocks]

I really do not like the GLA aircraft. It looks goofy like it was designed by EALA. At least give them some vietnam/cold war era aircraft like their toxin bomber.

[Kyang]

"Designed" by EALA?

It's a near exact copy and paste of a real, live, modern day, crop duster...

http://i.imgur.com/IUGH4.png

http://i.imgur.com/7qPvA.jpg

[hellodean]

i could see them perhaps with a unit similar to the YAK from red alert 1

http://www.apathbeyond.com/forum/updates/Yak1.jpg

[arthas1250]

Overreacting much?

thissss, those aircraft actually look very GLA'ish

[Frankaz]

it's about time the GLA got aircraft

[StormWolf]

I think they could use at least one aircraft so why not have a rusty old looking helicopter. It will probably have weak armor.

[Noodlesocks]

"Designed" by EALA?

It's a near exact copy and paste of a real, live, modern day, crop duster...

http://i.imgur.com/IUGH4.png

http://i.imgur.com/7qPvA.jpg

And looks terrible. GLA had massive bombers in Generals 1. I think they could do better than a hovering jungle gym.

[Kyang]

And looks terrible. GLA had massive bombers in Generals 1. I think they could do better than a hovering jungle gym.

And someone else felt that the giant bombers made out of junkyard scrap were terrible. A crop dusting helo fits right in the middle really. Right between the Toxin tractor and some combat cycle...

[L3g3nd4ry]

I wouldnt mind seeing old school WW2 era Migs taking on King Raptors, should be epic

[Noodlesocks]

And someone else felt that the giant bombers made out of junkyard scrap were terrible. A crop dusting helo fits right in the middle really. Right between the Toxin tractor and some combat cycle...

Those people were wrong.

[bombspy]

When I saw the GLA aircraft I was shocked

I can accept an Orca-like chopper for EU

but GLA has with both tunnels and Enable-build aircrafts there will be no balance in the game

either tunnel or aircraft

so please REMOVE that then bring the toxin tractor back.Innovation... I know you hate it, but without it we would still sit in caves and play "let's kill each other"...

[Kyang]

I wouldnt mind seeing old school WW2 era Migs taking on King Raptors, should be epic

Everyone needs to remember the original Generals E3 trailer :) :

(I made the link start at 50 seconds in on purpose.)

http://youtu.be/3IsOLljjckI?t=50s



Those people were wrong.

Lol. You'll need better talking points than that...

[sgfan206]

Heck, why not? It worked perfectly in Shockwave!

The Salvage General got two kinds of aircraft: Desert flies, equipped with a machine gun and phosphor bombs - and Gunships, equipped with Air-to-Ground Missiles. The desert fly actually is a flying piece of junk - one hit and it's down, and the Gunship is very weak against avengers.
The actual GLA has only one aircraft: A slow, very low armored ballon which comes with two RPG launchers. So, that is pretty balanced. It can be really annoying, but they are far away from being OP. Even with the GLA Tank Destroyer, called Chameleon.

I found it strange from the beginning that GLA got no types of aircraft except the reinforcement and bomber plane.

[Noodlesocks]

Everyone needs to remember the original Generals E3 trailer :) :

(I made the link start at 50 seconds in on purpose.)

http://youtu.be/3IsOLljjckI?t=50s




Lol. You'll need better talking points than that...

No, you will need to provide reasons for why a rusty bomber is worse than farm vehicle. "some people didn't like it" is not a reason, it's a lazy argument.

[Kyang]

No, you will need to provide reasons for why a rusty bomber is worse than farm vehicle. "some people didn't like it" is not a reason, it's a lazy argument.

I'm replying to your opinion. You merely said, "Looks terrible", which is completely subjective, and doesn't need anything more than a contrasting opinion to refute. So I gave one, and now you're trying to call me out as "lazy".

Actually, I was never making the point that the tractor was somehow better than the bomber. I'm saying that the helo works well considering the huge contrast in GLA equipment. From giant scrap bombers to toxin tractors.

Besides, I already did give a point. It's a plane made from scrap from a junkyard. At least a tractor with some pumps on it, is plausible. A giant bomber made from junkyard scrap is not.

[Noodlesocks]

If you wanted to talk points rather than opinions, you should have opened with one, and not an opinion of your own.

I'm not even sure how one would "talk points." Did you mean to use a different word? But if it's semantics you want then I would like to make the point (note: correct usage of the word) that I 'opened' by providing a comparative observation of the disparity in aesthetic design between old and new; questioning the apparent shift as such and proposing alternative basis from which to build upon.

In comparison, the only thing you seem to have provided to this... discussion is the verbal equivalent of "nuh-uh" :|

[Kyang]

EDIT:
Look, you're saying that I've only given a "nuh-uh". I'm telling you that I've already got your proposed basis, and the helo fits between it, the bomber, and the other extreme, which was the tractor. I've never tried to say one was better than the other.

[TheHarbo]

I like the concept of a scrap-heap plane/heli for the GLA, remember, this is set 10 years after the original Generals, why wouldn't you be able to make a slowmoving heli out of scrap from the trashheap?
An engine block here, metal for propellers there, and some framework from a spent pickup here and there ya go.
Sure it might not go past the sound barrier, but it's definitely plausible to make a plane from scrap.

The crop duster concept is great too, if it can spread fertilizer, it can spread Anthrax (If that's the still the poison they go for 10 years after.. Anthrax Delta maybe?).

[Noodlesocks]

Looks like your trying to make the case that, "Looks terrible" wasn't some kind of empty opinion, but rather a "comparative observation of the disparity in aesthetic design". Okay, so I provided another one. The bomber itself, "looks terrible".

No I made the case that I opened with such, in response to which I quoted:
If you wanted to talk points rather than opinions, you should have opened with one, and not an opinion of your own. based upon what seemed to be your hang up on the semantics used in the opening statement to which your quote referred to, hence the facetiousness. Though it seems the point I was trying to make was lost amongst all of them big words so I at least apologise for the assumption of understanding.

[DeAthRoW21]

It's very funny because even thought i only read what OP said, I find it hard for someone with a brain to complain balance wise about some unit and talking like if they knew whats alllready in the game or what other races have. Calm Down bro, let bioware do their thing and they got a year and a few month maybe to get this game good.

[Noodlesocks]

I like the concept of a scrap-heap plane/heli for the GLA, remember, this is set 10 years after the original Generals, why wouldn't you be able to make a slowmoving heli out of scrap from the trashheap?
An engine block here, metal for propellers there, and some framework from a spent pickup here and there ya go.
Sure it might not go past the sound barrier, but it's definitely plausible to make a plane from scrap.

The crop duster concept is great too, if it can spread fertilizer, it can spread Anthrax (If that's the still the poison they go for 10 years after.. Anthrax Delta maybe?).

See, this is how you provide a well thought out response and I agree, I guess it would make sense as a light support craft rather than a direct combat craft =)

[Kyang]

I was replying to this:

I really do not like the GLA aircraft. It looks goofy like it was designed by EALA. At least give them some vietnam/cold war era aircraft like their toxin bomber.
I said it was a direct copy of a modern day crop duster.

You replied:

And looks terrible. GLA had massive bombers in Generals 1. I think they could do better than a hovering jungle gym.
So I said that other felt the bomber looked terrible.

At which point you replied:

Those people were wrong.

All I've been saying is:

A crop dusting helo fits right in the middle really. Right between the Toxin tractor and some combat cycle...

Basically, the helo doesn't look terrible, it fits between the large contrast in equipment the GLA had, from large bombers made of scrap, to toxin tractors and combat cycles. The point was simple enough from the start. I'm not sure why you felt it was some kind of attack. I mean, I'm not wrong in saying that your post, "Those people were wrong" isn't really a good argument from someone who's posted seemingly excellent paragraphs after that.

[Generals2]

Please, Yes more GLA aircrafts!!! Give them useful aircrafts!!!

[Noodlesocks]

I was replying to this:

I said it was a direct copy of a modern day crop duster.

you replied:

So I said that other felt the bomber looked terrible.

At which point you replied:


All I've been saying is:



Not sure why that was so difficult to grasp.

It's over, son. Let it go already and better luck next time.

[DeAthRoW21]

If GLA needs another aircraft maybe is some wooden all scrapper heli with some slave with rocks to drop on infantry head.

[Kyang]

It's over, son. Let it go already and better luck next time.

EDIT:
I'm not even sure why the past few times I've talked to you it seems to be in a fight.

I'm fine with calling it over, since you agreed. Basically, the helo doesn't look terrible, it fits between the large contrast in equipment the GLA had, from large bombers made of scrap, to toxin tractors and combat cycles. That's all I've been saying from the start.

[hellodean]

i always thought the big bomber looked like a world war 2 bomber that was patched up rather than a stuck together bits and pieces plane

[DeAthRoW21]

^I agree with that as long as the GLA heli is not some fancy missile shooter like a commanche im ok if its a anthrax droping heli, maybe a slow moving but deadly to infantry heli. But i dont see any other aircraft fitting in GLA theme and filling a rol for them so if its just thatone ok, if anyhting else it would be a suicide like craft like that gla bomb truck in G1, but aircraft one.

[Kyang]

^I agree with that as long as the GLA heli is not some fancy missile shooter like a commanche im ok if its a anthrax droping heli, maybe a slow moving but deadly to infantry heli. But i dont see any other aircraft fitting in GLA theme and filling a rol for them so if its just thatone ok, if anyhting else it would be a suicide like craft like that gla bomb truck in G1, but aircraft one.

I haven't seen anyone really think the helo looks terrible yet. Like you say, it seems to have filled a very specific niche just fine.

[stephanovich]

And looks terrible. GLA had massive bombers in Generals 1. I think they could do better than a hovering jungle gym.

There's a difference between a Generals power and a build-able unit. Who says they don't still have a big bomber to drop an anthrax bomb in G2?

[Frankaz]

GLA copter looks great to me.

[Commander32]

There's a difference between a Generals power and a build-able unit. Who says they don't still have a big bomber to drop an anthrax bomb in G2?

True.

[Noodlesocks]

There's a difference between a Generals power and a build-able unit. Who says they don't still have a big bomber to drop an anthrax bomb in G2?

When talking purely about their arsenal, no, there isn't really a difference. The problem isn't if they do or don't still have a big bomber. Problem is that this particular design just looks goofy compared to what GLA is capable of fielding. Whatever role the craft eventually plays in the game, I think they could have made a more serious than comical looking unit

[Kyang]

When talking purely about their arsenal, no, there isn't really a difference. The problem isn't if they do or don't still have a big bomber. Problem is that this particular design just looks goofy compared to what GLA is capable of fielding. Whatever role the craft eventually plays in the game, I think they could have made a more serious than comical looking unit

So let's say if the unit had to be a helo, and it was going to keep its role as a toxin sprayer, would something like a militarized firefighter helo look better to you?

Maybe something like this?
http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/cafire_07_07/cafire7.jpg

[Noodlesocks]

So let's say if the unit had to be a helo, and it was going to keep its role as a toxin sprayer, would something like a militarized firefighter helo look better to you?

Maybe something like this?
http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/cafire_07_07/cafire7.jpg

Yes that looks better, or even a regular crop duster. The gyrocopteresque design just looks silly.

[Kyang]

Yes that looks better, or even a regular crop duster. The gyrocopteresque design just looks silly.

But isn't that exactly what EA did? They used a regular crop dusting helicopter. I guess I'm just not seeing how it could be considered too silly, when the GLA already roams around with tiny buggies attacking with massively oversized rocket pods, RPG shooting combat cycles, and tractors with toxin spraying pumps attached to them.

I agree that yes, the GLA could field a more substantial aircraft, as shown by the scrap bomber in Generals 1. But I find that, compared to the rest of the GLA's existing arsenal, including those in Gen2, contrasting examples of more serious military hardware like the giant scrap bomber, actually find themselves as the exception to the GLA's aesthetic, while the current toxin helo fits very well. Anything more "serious" would only confuse their design direction, rather than improve it.

[Revanchist]

I don't think the GLA should be able to actually build aircraft.

I do think that a crop duster "airstrike" should be a support power.

Just my 2 cents.

[Noodlesocks]

But isn't that exactly what EA did? They used a regular crop dusting helicopter. I guess I'm just not seeing how it could be considered too silly, when the GLA already roams around with tiny buggies attacking with massively oversized rocket pods, RPG shooting combat cycles, and tractors with toxin spraying pumps attached to them.

I agree that yes, the GLA could field a more substantial aircraft, as shown by the scrap bomber in Generals 1. But I find that, compared to the rest of the GLA's existing arsenal, including those in Gen2, contrasting examples of more serious military hardware like the giant scrap bomber, actually find themselves as the exception to the GLA's aesthetic, while the current toxin helo fits very well. Anything more "serious" would only confuse their design direction, rather than improve it.

I always hated the rocket buggy's massive floppy rocket salvos to be honest. They were almost as big as the buggy itself :|

[Kyang]

I always hated the rocket buggy's massive floppy rocket salvos to be honest.

So this is more like you trying to shift the GLA, one unit at a time. :eek: .

[motherurck]

I'm glad that the GLA will finally have aircraft in the base game, they really lacked it. Though I hope they get some kind of jet fighters like Mig 21 or something. The GLA needs aircraft. Oh and a suicide plane would be nice too.

[Noodlesocks]

So this is more like you trying to shift the GLA, one unit at a time. :eek: .

I'd rather they simply take a more sensible approach to unit design.

[Namechanged]

They shouldn't have an airforce of more than 2 or 3 types, because then they would have as much or more than Generals 1 China.

[Noodlesocks]

I'm glad that the GLA will finally have aircraft in the base game, they really lacked it. Though I hope they get some kind of jet fighters like Mig 21 or something. The GLA needs aircraft. Oh and a suicide plane would be nice too.

I wonder if it would be politically correct to give GLA old zeros.

[Kyang]

I wonder if it would be politically correct to give GLA old zeros.

I think it would be fine. They were ready to give them weird MiG-17 looking jets back in the original version before some changes were made.


I'd rather they simply take a more sensible approach to unit design.

Right, I think a crop dusting helo is the only flying type that the rag tag group the GLA has been made out to be, could sensibly get their hands on. The scrap bomber really seems like an exception to me. That includes other things like SCUD launchers.

[Noodlesocks]

I think it would be fine. They were ready to give them weird MiG-17 looking jets back in the original version before some changes were made.



Right, I think a crop dusting helo is the only flying type that the rag tag group the GLA has been made out to be, could sensibly get their hands on. The scrap bomber really seems like an exception to me. That includes other things like SCUD launchers.

I imagine more traditional crop dusters would be more common and more likely to be adapted.

[CyborgBanana]

Hmm... a Toxin Crop Duster would go alongside the Toxin Tractor very well.

[Kyang]

I imagine more traditional crop dusters would be more common and more likely to be adapted.

Wait, why isn't a crop dusting helicopter, traditional?

[Legendslayer]

I'm gonna make my first attempt at a debate... so... :P

Honestly, i'm fine with them having "aircraft" so to speak, as long as it not "new". Maybe they "borrowed" aircraft from an old U.S military base? *wink wink* :P

[StormWolf]

Next thing you know they are going to have a structure called a Toxin Barn. Is the GLA pretty much becoming a farming army?

[Noodlesocks]

Wait, why isn't a crop dusting helicopter, traditional?

Traditional crop dusters are either biplanes or propeller driven planes. They are the most common type of airborne crop dusters in the world

[Kyang]

I think this where whatever the intended gameplay mechanics Bioware wanted for their toxin helo became the deciding factor...

[Noodlesocks]

Now you're just pulling things out of the air :|

[Alaskan_Viking]

So let's say if the unit had to be a helo, and it was going to keep its role as a toxin sprayer, would something like a militarized firefighter helo look better to you?

Maybe something like this?
http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/cafire_07_07/cafire7.jpg

That looks much better.

The reason the GLA doesnt have aircraft is that they, as a factor, gameplay and style wise, are a low tech underground, terrorist gurrilla type faction, no airforce. They are not the MEC from BF2, I know that in real life any "GLA" pan arab alliance would have a huge airforce, but this series has always been about gameplat over realism.

The GLA havving no aircraft, and very weak "strike" general powers made it a very unique faction, I mean, if they giv ethem air units and powerful Off map arty and airstrike call ins, are they going to give the EU tunnel networks?

[Cinderella_EX]

agreed

[GammaCobra]

How about, if you reach 5 star GLA General, you can activate a Sukhoi Fighter Jet for the GLA :D (Yes, and everyone will start saying no to me, especially that airplane guy and also other faceless people. Oh well.) :(

[methuselah]

Seriously I don't get how some people think they can tell something will be imbalanced when they don't know ANY of the statistics.

ESP? Pretty silly I concur.

[Commander_McNash]

How about, if you reach 5 star GLA General, you can activate a Sukhoi Fighter Jet for the GLA :D (Yes, and everyone will start saying no to me, especially that airplane guy and also other faceless people. Oh well.) :(

But Sukhoi is so cool and sexy it needs to be in the game!

http://www.sukhoi.org/img/gallery/wallpaper/SU-47_VERT.jpg

[Alaskan_Viking]

The S-37 was a useless piece of junk.

But if the Russians are added into the game they need to have a plane based off of it; it looks better than the PAK-FA does, and it looks much less like an F-22, more unique with swept wings, etc.

[HOPE1134]

Reminds me of the GDI Firehawk

[Alex06]

ESP? Pretty silly I concur.
I concur with you and Pizza.


I can accept GLA plane throwing Anthrax Bomb

But I can't accept Enable-build airforces
Why can't you accept it? GLA were supposed to have an air force and power plants originally, but due to time constraints, it wasn't completed, so whatever was already implemented but incomplete was removed. Viking's argument that the GLA are NOT MEANT to have air units thus falls flat, because they WERE supposed to.

How is it imba if all they get are support aircraft? How can you even assume that without knowing more than 5 units the GLA has, ONE of which is an aircraft? We don't even know if there are tunnels for the GLA in Generals 2.

So your claim that it is imbalanced, is actually false or unconfirmable, because we barely know anything about the game.

Perhaps even the aircraft we saw in the picture were just summonable aircraft, sort of like the giant bomber they have in Generals 1 that drops their support powers.

What you guys need to realize is this is NOT Generals 2.0, but Generals 2. It's a sequel, not a remake. They're not going to replace 2-3 units per faction, they're going to replace MOST of the units per faction except 2-3.

EDIT: This game is also set in 2030, which is why the GLA have more modern units. They probably also have more access to technology and thus have gone more "global". It's exactly just like how Nod relied heavily on US weapons and mercenaries in Tiberian Dawn, but in Tiberian Sun, every Nod unit was unique to Nod, it wasn't from someone else.