Create a Compilation Mod, Anyone? [Archive]

WhiteDragon25

02-27-2012, 07:48 PM

Hello... I'm WhiteDragon25, longtime lurker and fan of the Command & Conquer series (obviously).
I'm rather new to forum membership and thread posting entirely, so please be patient and pleasant with me.

Anyways, as the title mentions, I've had this idea for a while about a mod, and I was wondering if anyone would be interested? My general idea is that we take the best ideas, concepts, and aspects from multiple mods and compile them into one BIG mod, so that we can have the best game experience without having to go through dozens of different mods to play with certain gameplay elements.

My basic starting base would be taking the setup of Kane's Wrath and go from there, adding in units, structures, and abilities to cover whatever glaring flaws there were from the base game. The advantage of this would be that we would be able to play the same basic Kane's Wrath concept, but still be able to modify and improve upon it when the need arises.

If anyone's interested, I can discuss some of my ideas in more detail below. Any takers?

Commander32

02-27-2012, 09:15 PM

Your best bet is to make your own mod that has your own content of your own interest, its not possible to just 'combine' mods. It just doesn't work that way.

It might work for Generals and ZH as its not as hard coded compared to more recent games, but anything CnC3 and beyond is impossible to do. Even if it is you need to get legal permission from the modders, and not all of them will give you a yes answer.

Try to find a good dedicated team whos willing to pinch into your goals.

BTW this needs to be moved to its right section. :P

WhiteDragon25

02-27-2012, 10:38 PM

Yeah... About that... I don't have the Mod SDK for Tiberium Wars, and even if I did, there is no way I could possibly comprehend how to use it, I'm no programmer. And I didn't mean 'combining' mods as in 'smashing two or more together', I meant more like 'building a separate one, but using elements from several different sources'. Sorry if I didn't clarify that enough.

WhiteDragon25

02-27-2012, 10:50 PM

A bit more clarification: my idea was that this would be more of a community-wide effort, and no one mod group has to take the full burden of the work - they can just contribute whatever they can when it's needed. And I was thinking that doing it this way, we could work on the mod much faster than if it was a single effort by one group or person. After all, although the mod itself would be built from the ground up, it's still using material that already appeared in another mod (such as TE or TWA). Additionally, some of the concepts I have actually come from all over the place, mostly from projects for other Command & Conquer games. A lot of the projects either have an extremely slow production time, or are dead in the water. I thought 'why let these ideas go to waste?', so I collected them to use for something else (that doesn't count as plagiarism, right?).

Commander32

02-28-2012, 12:42 AM

Well I can say that its not really gonna happen, every modder wants to do thier own independent thing.
Such a big, ambitious project will not happen unless you find a way to get the WHOLE modding community to pitch in, which of course wont happen as I have stated above.

Also, if your gonna use someone else's concept, you need to ask them for permission, its basic copyright law.
And not everyone is just gonna give away stuff for use.

BTW you gonna be out of luck if you have no modding skills, if you wanna get something done you will have to do it yourself. I wanted something in so I invested my time to learn how to mod and stuff, and you can do the same as well.

Stygs

02-29-2012, 11:35 AM

The basic problem is simply:

Who decides what goes into the mod?

Who decides that idea a) is better than idea b) or how something should be realized?
The community? People tried similiar mod concepts before, the relust is allways the same: If you try to listen to everone, you only end up with a bloated mess that no one really likes.

WhiteDragon25

02-29-2012, 07:54 PM

Well, as for what goes into the mod, I already have a (rough) concept of what should go in - not to step on any toes, here, but I already have a plan for it (if anyone's interested in joining). Would you guys like an example of what I think might go in? I'll put it in my next post if so.

Commander32

02-29-2012, 08:42 PM

A plan is just a plan, and not everyone is gonna agree with your plan.

You should REALLY try to mod yourself, its pretty much the only sure way you can get something you want in.

It takes time to learn, but it beats depending on someone else in a longshot.

For me it will take time b4 I can be independent on others, but I can assure you it will be worth it.

If you wanna get something done, you have to do it yourself...

Though public models and code sources do help cut the time in half.

WhiteDragon25

03-01-2012, 12:27 AM

OK, then... so I pretty much can't do anything without first learning how to use the SDK... which we like learning ancient Latin for me. *Sigh* Oh well... but can you at least hear me out on my ideas? I think an example may help with illustrating them:

First, take the basic Kane's Wrath faction setup:
Nod
Black Hand
Marked of Kane
GDI
Steel Talons
ZOCOM
Scrin
Reaper-17
Traveler-59

Simple, something everyone can (mostly) agree on, right? Now, let's focus on, say, the Black Hand:

Infantry - Take the same loadout from the game. Now what needs changing? Well, in my opinion, we could start with replacing the Militia Rocket Squad with a Confessor equivalent (minus the buff ability, maybe); then, to fill in the hole left by the Shadow Teams, we could put in the Elite Cadre - those soldiers from the Firestorm Nod campaign - which would fit in perfectly with the general theme of the faction. Lastly, the Commando(s). Perhaps replace the design with KaneNash's "Shade Slayer" art, with a flamethrower instead of laser pistols? Another thing to add would be the weapon-switch feature from TWA, giving the Black Hand Squad laser rifles along with the flamethrowers, some sort of fire-themed rocket for the Confessor Rocket Squads, and a anti-vehicle laser rifle for the Commandos (who would be renamed the "Twin Sisters").

Vehicles - Start with replacing the Scorpion Tank and the Flame Tank with their equivalents from Tiberian Essence (giving the Black Hand a subterranean theme to replace stealth), and the Beam Cannon as well. Both of these would be good choices, since there is precedence for the Black Hand to have its own models of Nod vehicles (i.e. Renegade). The Mantis Drone would need a remodel, though. Also, the Purifier Warmech could be given the loadout from its upgrade counterpart also from Tiberian Essence. The Spectre Artillery should also be replaced as well, possibly the Mole Artillery idea from Twisted Insurrection? It would add to the subterranean shtick. Lastly, the Reckoner APC could be given a subterranean ability as well, and a slight remodel to fit it as well.

Aircraft - Obviously, no aircraft, but at least give them something like a scout UAV with no weapons on it, which could be launched from a building that replaces the Air Tower, giving extra support powers to compensate for no aircraft.

Defenses - Same armory, but replace the Shredder Turrets with a flamethrower equivalent.

Upgrades - Mostly the same, but moving the Purifying Flame to the Tech Lab to prevent the Black Hand from being too overpowered early in a match. Anything else pending for changes.

Note: anything above is also liable for balance changes if necessary (assuming this goes anywhere).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that's some of my ideas, nothing I think that could be too objectionable. So, any thoughts? Criticisms?

(Note: All of the stuff that's from other mods that I mentioned belongs purely to them, and dependant on permission to use if this ends up going anywhere; don't want to step on any toes.)

Commander32

03-01-2012, 09:36 AM

OK, then... so I pretty much can't do anything without first learning how to use the SDK... which we like learning ancient Latin for me.

If you don't at least try than you not putting your ambitions into reality.

At least try it, and you can learn from the pros.

Also I not really agreeable with those ideas, sorry.

Stygs

03-01-2012, 11:50 AM

Well, for one:
Whats the poînt of the Elite Cadre? Back in TS, they were a replacement for the Cyborgs, a heavy infantry armed with a anti infantry gun.
But in KW, the Confessor is allready a quite strong basic infantry - having a slightly more powerfull version of it as a elite unit is pretty pointless. And do forget that the Black Hand also has the normal Black Hand Infantry as heavy anti infantry unit.
Not to mention that the whole point of the old Black Hand seemed to be sabotage and commando operations, getting rid of stealth (and Shadows) never made sense to me for this faction.

I also dislike the whole "no aircraft" idea - it sucked in KW and it sucks here - they really could use a Banshee MK2 and a Venom.

Commander32

03-01-2012, 05:43 PM

WhiteDragon25

03-02-2012, 12:24 AM

You may have missed this, but I didn't say replace the Scorpion Tank with the Flame Tank - what I actually said was to replace the base vehicles with their TE equivalents: the Scorpion Tank MKII and the Devil's Tongue. I never said anything with replacing the main battle tank whole-heartedly. Although I do have to say the Napalm Shells for the Scorpion Tank is a good idea...

As for Stygs' issues with the Black Hand, my personal interpretation is that the Black Hand in the game is more oriented for urban warfare: the heavy amount of fire-based weaponry and lack of stealth and aircraft would seem to imply that. When you're fighting in the middle of an urban environment, the enemy already knows you're there, so no point in hiding your intentions; and aircraft won't help you much when you're really close in with the enemy - you don't wan't to get bombed by friendly fire. Besides, GDI controls all of the Blue Zone cities, areas the Black Hand mostly likely would have to engage in - which means, with GDI's institutional paranoia, stealth detection and AA defenses would be everywhere. No sense wasting resorces with tech that's already neutered - best to just declare your presence as loudly and destructively as possible.

So generally, the Modus Operandi would be this: Massive, concentrated force composed of elite units, with an extreme intimidation factor, focused on the objective entirely - get in, break $h!t, achieve objective, and get out, all while scaring the crap out of everyone in the area, attacking and leaving so fast that GDI won't have a bloody clue what just happened. I think this fits nicely with what happens in-game: the religious focus the faction has certainly is intimidating, and the Giraud Incident seems to exemplify this concept greatly.

Of course, that's just my justification.

WhiteDragon25

03-02-2012, 01:06 AM

Oh, almost forgot: additionally, about using the Elite Cadre, they could fill in the hole left by the Shadow Team, using the explosives and artillery beacons they use, while being a heavily armed and armored infantry squad, sort of like a counterpart to the GDI Zone Troopers. It may seem redundant, but I think it's a good fit. The actual details of unit balance can be dealt with if/when the time comes. Besides, it could serve a good contrast: while the Shadow Teams are the stealthy saboteurs, sneaking in with nobody noticing, the Elite Cadre would be the ones kicking down the door and blowing up everything that gets in their way, including any vehicles - something the Black Hand Troopers can't do.

Now that I got my arse pulls out of the way, can you specify what are your issues with my ideas? It would be great to see what are the exact problems with them.

Commander32

03-02-2012, 02:07 AM

As you can see, this is mainly based on your own personal preferences, that being said, not everyone its gonna have to same preferences as you will.

I just don't like those preferences by the way.

Im going to say this agian...

Do it yourself. Like Stygs told us trying to get a random bunch of peeps to mod your ideas is just gonna make it a big pile of slop heap, its virtually certain that they won't wolly agree with your concepts.

I for one was in this same position as your are, but instead of trying to insist on getting people to get ideas going for you, I went ahead and acually took the time to learn about Modding, and look what I did, I managed to get some of my own ideas ingame.
(added more stuff to a modded TE mod I did)

With proof pics to boot.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg138/scaled.php?server=138&filename=1217389264.jpg&res=medium

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg208/scaled.php?server=208&filename=1217162104.jpg&res=medium

WhiteDragon25

03-02-2012, 03:36 AM

*Sigh* I guess I'm stuck with trying to learn the SDK... At the very least, can someone start a thread with all the links to the software and a tutorial on how to use it? Preferably one written to be idiot-proof and by experienced modders... Though I doubt there will be one.

One another note, I still didn't get any specific reasons why you didn't like these preferences. Was there any specific part of what I said didn't fit in thematically? Anything that may be a potential balance problem? Details would be nice. (Apologies if I'm coming off as rude or forceful; I just don't take well to criticism without some reasoning for it.)

On another note, the stuff I already posted was only a small portion of what I had in mind. If you like, I can post some of the other ideas I had - factions, gameplay, story fluff, if there's anything you'd like to see, just ask. It'll be nice to just get some feedback on them.

Stygs

03-02-2012, 10:48 AM

Well, I would like to see your ideas for Steel Talons and Scrin - I still looking for stuff for TWA, so maybe there is somethíng there I can reuse :P

Commander32

03-02-2012, 10:53 AM

Well, I would like to see your ideas for Steel Talons and Scrin - I still looking for stuff for TWA, so maybe there is somethíng there I can reuse :P

Heh, thats great.

I would like to see it as well, hopefully its something we can all agree on.

Zocom7

03-02-2012, 05:22 PM

Well as what WhiteDragon25 has mentioned, I am also doing a similar way on what he's trying to do with getting in the sub-factions to work. The problem with the sub-factions is adding in the new unit abilities, upgrades and support powers, and those have to work in the vanilla faction(s) before putting them into a sub-faction, in which I have tried and succeeded. It took me hours to do that.

WhiteDragon25

03-02-2012, 06:12 PM

...Wait, Stygs, YOU'RE the one in charge of the TWA mod!? Wow. Never knew that.

Anyways, I don't have a lot of very concrete ideas for the Scrin yet (due to aliens being the most difficult to envision units for), but the Steel Talons and ZOCOM factions I can deliver on, along with the Marked of Kane. I think I'll start with the Steel Talons:

Infantry: While the Steel Talons rely more on vehicles than infantry, there aren't very many changes to be made, aside from giving the Grenadiers grenade lauchers (which should have been there in the first place), along with the TWA weapon-switch ability for all the combat infantry. However, One thing that needs to be added is some sort of heavy infantry ala the Zone Troopers or Commando, which they sorely need to balance out with everyone else. Perhaps a RA2-esque Navy Seals-like unit?

Vehicles: Obviously the walkers stay, but the Wolverine should get the Tiberium Icestorm model (which looks much better with gatling guns) and should replace the Pitbull in the scouting department. The Tempest Hover MRLS also from the TIS mod should also be included, filling in for the Slingshot (I was planning to have the GDI factions have their own hover units). The big thing, though, is something that everyone should like - the Mammoth MKII for the Epic Unit spot (renamed the Mastodon, since the Mammoth Tank will be staying, and it's a good name [ignoring the rest of the *Nameless Game*]). Obviously the Epic Unit Mastodon needs some adjustments to its weapons loadout, but I think it's something workable. I am, however, divided on what to do with the Mobile Repair Transport - putting an APC and a Repair/Recovery Vehicle together just doesn't sit well with me. Any ideas?

Aircraft: The aircraft selection stays the same, but if you guys got any ideas for changes, let me know.

Structures: Same structures, but with the addition of the landing-pad-thing from TE (what delivers the MKII), replacing the Reclamator Hub. There should be a replacement for the Armory, though; perhaps something for the vehicles?

Defenses: The one thing that I think that's needed most is a replacement for the Sonic Emitter. Hence, the Magnetic Accelerator Cannon V (MAC-V). Shamelessly stolen from the last campaign level of Halo Reach, the MAC is essentially a giant railgun turret, perfect for the Steel Talons and their love of railguns. (I also stole the acronym from CoD:BO, from the MACV-SOG. Hey, it fits.)

Upgrades: Obviously the Railgun and Adaptive Armor upgrades stay, but the former should also be applied to the AA Battery like in TE. Other upgrade ideas like the Orca Minigun (also from TE) could also be included, and shared across all the GDI factions.

Misc.: I'm not too sure on what to do with the vehicle bunker idea - considering the ST's lack of infantry to garrison with, I don't much use for them (although with some tinkering, it could find some new life). What do you guys think?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that's the layout for the Steel Talons I have, my next few posts would have the ZOCOM and Marked of Kane in them. Feel free to point out any potential problems or alterations.

Commander32

03-02-2012, 07:33 PM

Of course, a Railgun Turret would be neato.

Having a unique model for that turret would work but we can just use the CnC4 Focus Beam Turret as a base placeholder at best for the time being. :P

WhiteDragon25

03-02-2012, 08:42 PM

Yeah, I thought that you'd like the MAC Turret. It's essentially a GDI version of the RA2 Grand Cannon. Now, onto ZOCOM:

Infantry: As usual, same infantry layout, with the same change to the Grenadier Squads from my previous post. The Zone Raiders would probably need slight remodeling, with some changes to the sonic weapon they have. I don't have a solid plan on what to do for the Commando, aside from Tiberium protection, but I'm thinking of something sonic-related, to fit the faction theme.

Vehicles: Use the pre-release Predator Tank model (the one with the rocket launcher), and replace the Rocket Harvester's rocket launcher with the Pitbull's turret (it'll look nicer). ZOCOM will get the Shatterer Hovercraft exclusively (with a rename to Shatterpoint, since Shatterer sounds stupid) - vanilla GDI will get the Slingshot, which I'll cover in another post. The Mammoth Tank could be given greater speed at the cost of armor (not a too extreme decrease, though) - this idea might not go over well with GDI fans though. The last thing that needs to be added is an artillery vehicle; perhaps to fit the sonic weaponry theme, the Disruptor Tank could make a return?

Aircraft: The Orca Assault Craft's weapons would be changed from sonic grenades back to missiles, but with a sonic crystal core instead - gives better accuracy, but does the same damage (values pending). The Firehawk could also be given some sonic bombs and missiles as well.

Upgrades: The biggest upgrade I'm thinking of would be something to fill in the missing railgun upgrade - say, a Sonic Cannon upgrade? Similar to the Sonic Cannons used on the MARV, the upgrade would give the Predator and Mammoth Tanks a powerful area-of-effect weapon, that does massive damage to anything related to Tiberium. Another upgrade would be an armor upgrade for the tanks as well, as a counterpart to the ST Adaptive Armor. This armor upgrade could give extra resistance to Tiberium-based weapons.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generally, ZOCOM would get more of a focus on rocket/missile weaponry, and sonic-based weaponry as well. They would work as a fast-response, anti-Tiberium taskforce, usually assigned for clean-up duties in hostile Red Zones, where Forgotten, Scrin, and Nod forces are known to operate in. They would also persistantly be using the latest state-of-the-art technology, while the Steel Talons were more oriented for refining and improving the TS Era tech, hoping for its eventual re-adoption.

As usual, anything you wish to say about this layout, you can do so. I'll get to the Marked of Kane next post, and then the GDI Peacekeepers and the Armies of Nod (the renames for the vanilla factions).

Commander32

03-02-2012, 10:50 PM

As for the shatterer, I would have to say no to that idea, I would refer if Regular GDI keeps em and Zocom gets the Disruptor instead(like TE's)

Heavier armor, more power, nuff said.

Still, you gotta find a way to get this ingame, better find out yourself or you find someone whos willing, and there is not many out there whos willing.

Lauren

03-02-2012, 11:37 PM

The problem with the sub-factions is adding in the new unit abilities, upgrades and support powers, and those have to work in the vanilla faction(s) before putting them into a sub-faction,
I can't see the relevance in putting an ability in a faction and then move it to another.
Adding upgrades is by far one of the easiest things to do, and abilities are pretty much easy too. Also there is no real difference between a "unit ability" and "support power".

Commander32

03-03-2012, 12:21 AM

One more thought, since we have a KW sdk now, perhaps you should invest on putting the mod ideas over there instead of CnC3, could use more KW mods for once...

WhiteDragon25

03-03-2012, 04:27 AM

...Wait, there's a KW Mod SDK? When the hell did THAT happen!? I'll get looking into it when I get the chance...
Anyways, I'll get to the MoK on my next post (damn Internet connection issues...).

Commander32

03-03-2012, 05:51 AM

...Wait, there's a KW Mod SDK? When the hell did THAT happen!? I'll get looking into it when I get the chance...
Anyways, I'll get to the MoK on my next post (damn Internet connection issues...).

I should say your lack the proper info these days.

http://www.moddb.com/games/cc-kanes-wrath/mods

The community made it, so start looking.

Nevertheless, It seeems we are just used to the CnC3 sdk D:.

I really hope we get more KW mods.

Lauren

03-03-2012, 11:15 AM

There are 4 known bugs in the current version and I haven't implemented the audio stuff yet. But other then that it's fully functional.

WhiteDragon25

03-03-2012, 12:26 PM

OK, I'm back... and really, a KW SDK? If I knew that earlier, I would've gotten it sooner! I only downloaded it last night after finding out! Just need to reinstall Kane's Wrath next...

Anyways, where was I? Oh, yes back to the idea posting - Next up on the list is the Marked of Kane:

Infantry: The most obvious change to be made is to make ALL the infantry Cyborgs. The Awakened could use a face-lift to look like KaneNash's artwork, and the same could be said for the Enlightened as well (KaneNash's art for them looks so awesome). Replace the Rocket Militia with a cyborg unit similar in concept to the Devoted from the [NAME REDACTED] game. The Tiberium Trooper could use some revision to its model, such as a better-looking helmet and sprayer weapon. Replace the Shadow Team with the Infector Snipers from Twisted Insurrection, giving the MoK more of a Tiberium-weaponry theme. I got two ideas on what the Commando should be - the Chemical Maiden from Rise of Ominus, given a Tib-powered laser cannon similar to Halo's Spartan Laser, that has the ability to use the main laser weapon against tanks (and maybe aircraft), or switch to using the Tib-fuel as a LT sprayer against infantry; or a Cyborg Commando expy called the Asended, to go with the "Awakened" and "Enlightened" naming theme. Once again, they are ALL cyborgs. After all, cyborgs are cool. (One last note: should the Fanatics be replaced with a unit similar to the Medibot from MEC2, but turning ressurected units into cyborgs, or just drop them?)

Vehicles: Continuing with the cyborg theme, the Attack Bike and Raider Buggy should also be either cybernetically/robotically controlled, and perhaps the Scorpion Tank or equivalent as well. To replace the Flame Tank, the Cyborg Reaper makes a return, using the ErastusMercy concept for it. The Basilisk Beam Cannon from TE also comes in, as with the BH. The Spectre is also going to have its cannon replaced by a Chemical Missile Launcher, and renamed the Phantom (The Spectre itself stays as a separate unit; besides, it needs a remodel anyways, it looks silly). The Stealth Tank gets a new MoK version, the Chameleon Stealth Tank from the RA2 Reign of Steel mod. Lastly, the Avatar gets its weapons replaced by its Sentinel upgrade from TE, and is renamed as such (as a counterpart to the BH Purifier).

Aircraft: The same aircraft, with the addition of the Banshee Fighter, a crowd favorite.

Structures: The Secret Shine gets replaced by the Hall of Faith (another concept by ErastusMercy), given cyborg-related upgrades.

Upgrades: The big upgrade here would be the Tiberium Core Warheads, given to the Stealth Tank and such. Another upgrade would be a Laser-based upgrade, like in the base game. Any other ideas for upgrades?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that's the Marked of Kane lineup, I'll get to the GDI Peacekeepers and Armies of Nod in my next two posts. As for the Shatterer issue, I was trying to go for a symmetry there: Peacekeepers get the Slingshot, Steel Talons get the Tempest, and ZOCOM gets the Shatterer (Shatterpoint). As for the Disruptor, I already put it in as an artillery unit, so if you wanted it, it's already covered.

CrazyGDIfan123`

03-03-2012, 05:27 PM

There are 4 known bugs in the current version and I haven't implemented the audio stuff yet. But other then that it's fully functional.
also hope you can speed up the compiling - the references fixing part takes frigging ages atm that im almost tempted to go back to a previous version ^^

Lauren

03-03-2012, 06:29 PM

I'm working on a "2.0" version that should improve most features and fixes bugs, dunno how long it will take me though.

Commander32

03-03-2012, 07:55 PM

I'm working on a "2.0" version that should improve most features and fixes bugs, dunno how long it will take me though.

In the meantime we should go back to modding CnC3. :P

Heh, no better way to waste time than that.

WhiteDragon25

03-05-2012, 03:03 AM

OK, I'm back... So, did ANYBODY have anything to say about my previous posts? No? OK then... Moving on - GDI Peacekeepers:

Infantry: Aside from new models for all the infantry, the Missile and Grenadier Squads get the TWA weapon-switch ability, and the Grenadiers get some proper grenade launchers. The Commando also gets a modification to his rifle - it can switch from the current anti-infantry mode to an anti-tank railgun mode (which we can use the TWA version for the second mode.)

Vehicles: The Pitbull needs a remodel, since nobody seems to take it seriously, and the Predator Tank gets replaced by its TWA version. The TWA's Centurion gets two more barrels and will be the new Slingshot. The Guardian APC and the Rig/Battle Base could use a remodel as well (this would apply for all the GDI factions). The MARV could also use a remodel too.

Aircraft: All the aircraft here stay the same.

Structures: Ditto.

Upgrades: The main change here would be replacing the Railguns with Ion Cannons - This puts GDI's signature weapons in all its factions (Railguns for Steel Talons, Ion Cannons for GDI Peacekeepers, and Sonic Cannons for ZOCOM, to summerize). Any other upgrade ideas are up for debate.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's not much, but considering that this was essentially the vanilla GDI faction, there wasn't that much that needed changing. Next post, the Armies of Nod (aka, the vanilla Nod faction). After that, I'll need some help fleshing out ideas for the Scrin. As usual, feedback is welcome.

WhiteDragon25

03-05-2012, 08:47 PM

I'm back, and just reinstalled Kane's Wrath and played a few skirmish matches to refresh myself on the gameplay. It seems to me that the subfactions are overpowered only in very specific areas, while ignoring the rest of the arsenal. The lack of variety in the subfactions rather shows. Anyways, here's my last outline - the Armies of Nod:

Infantry: The Militia Squads can actually be a mix of the TW & KW units; since they are 'militia', it would make sense that there wouldn't be a uniform (heh) dress code. Have them have both the hoodie and the armor skins. The main change though would be the Commando - using KaneNash's Shade Slayer art as a base would be a massive improvement. As before, the TWA weapon-switch ability should be put to use.

Vehicles: The Raider Buggy and the Scorpion Tank get replaced by their TWA counterparts. The Flame Tank should also get a remodel too, make it more 'beetle-like' in appearance. TE's Basilisk Beam Cannon replaces the original, though it should keep the Reflector Beam ability, it's rather unique. As I mentioned before, the Spectre could use a remodel, it looks rather silly (at least to me, anyways). The Avatar could definitely use an overhaul concerning its Commandeer Technology ability, it seems rather wasteful (also, its laser-cannon arm needs to be made more badass).

Aircraft: I don't see many changes needed here, aside from the Signature Generator needing a complete overhaul.

Structures: The Hand of Nod gets a makeover in the form of its Twisted Insurrection version (that one looks awesome). The Tech Lab could also use a makeover as well.

Upgrades: A few of the upgrades need to be rearranged, but as for new upgrades, I'm not sure what to put in. Any suggestions?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that's the last outline I have for now. It's as bare as the GDI one, but considering that these are the vanilla factions, it's excusable. Now, do you guys have any changes to suggest?

Apart from that, I have a few questions about how to use the KW Mod SDK: Are there any tutorials for it? And is there anything else I need for it before getting started?

Harrrr

03-06-2012, 12:36 AM

Apart from that, I have a few questions about how to use the KW Mod SDK: Are there any tutorials for it? And is there anything else I need for it before getting started?

They designed the KW SDK to be very similar and to rebound off the normal CnC 3 SDK, so obviously most documentation for the CnC 3 SDK will apply (with some general exceptions like the art to buildable walls not being in KW). Generally speaking, since it's similar to the CnC 3 way, most tutorials will apply. There's also a treasure trove of information to parse through on the Thundermods page for the SDK.

One thing I will reiterate is that the SDK can't really touch art assets (models/textures). It contains the plugins for 3DS Max 7 and 9, but not the actual application itself. This really isn't a big deal since you're mostly going to be relying on the finished assets from other mods, but I did want to throw that out there since you were mentioning modifying or creating new models.

Commander32

03-06-2012, 07:03 AM

Well, its nice to propose, but I think someone else has already did some of these changes.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/kanes-wrath-reloaded

WhiteDragon25

03-06-2012, 06:37 PM

...Well, I tried looking through the tutorials at the Thundermods website, looked through some of the KW SDK documentation, and even took a look at the WrathEd program... and I STILL can't make heads or tails of it. I can get a *little* bit of it (very, very, very little), but trying to learn how to use the whole thing would take freaking forever - and unfortunately, I just don't have the endurance or patience for such a task. I'm just not cut out for it. I am able to contribute design ideas, but aside from that, I'm practically useless. There goes my dream... at least I got this out of my head, though.

And yeah, I looked at that KWR page too. At least somebody had some of the same ideas, albeit in a different direction. Although why is there so much stuff from C&C4?

Commander32

03-06-2012, 07:38 PM

And yeah, I looked at that KWR page too. At least somebody had some of the same ideas, albeit in a different direction. Although why is there so much stuff from C&C4?

Simple, most if not all of the CnC4 stuff looks so much better in CnC3's shaders. :P

WhiteDragon25

03-06-2012, 08:11 PM

Simple, most if not all of the CnC4 stuff looks so much better in CnC3's shaders. :P

Well, yeah, I got that. I was just wondering though why anyone was using stuff from C&C4, since practically everybody seems to profess a deep and undying hatred for it. I do have to admit, though, that the C&C4 stuff does look better in TW.

Anyways, I can still post some more ideas when they pop in my head, okay? I've got plenty of creativity, just none of the technical skills needed to express it.

WhiteDragon25

03-07-2012, 03:58 AM

I doubt anyone's actually paying attention to any of this, but I'll at least make the effort to jot more ideas down, this time more on the conceptual side of how the factions can be oriented:

Nod Factions:

Black Hand: Flame weaponry, elite units, urban warfare, subterranean tech, psychological warfare
Armies of Nod: Guerilla warfare, speed and mobility, mass numbers, stealth tactics
Marked of Kane: Cybernetics, Tiberium weaponry, high technology, surgical strikes, advanced stealth tech

GDI Factions:

Steel Talons: Walkers, massive firepower, refinement of previous tech, aggressive attack strategy
GDI Peacekeepers: Balanced combined arms, deep battle strategy, tanks & artillery, 'what's overkill?'
Zone Operations Command: Anti-Tiberium focus, economy defense, steamroller tactics, weapons R&D

Scrin:

Ichor Harvesting Fleet: Heavy economic growth, aerial supremacy, swarming tactics
Reaper-17: Extreme Tiberium augmentation, steamroller brutality, crush-kill-destroy, 'exterminate!'
Traveler-59: Subversive tactics, mind control, divide-and-conquer, enslavement, mutation of enemies

I've also had the idea to throw in C&C Labs' Forgotten faction, and also CABAL as a joke faction. This would bring the faction total up to eleven, which would bring a massive amount of diversity to choose from. Of course, the former would be dependent on the C&C Labs Team's permission, and the latter needs to be created from scratch (and I don't think a CABAL faction would be popular with very many people).

Next post will be more on the technology focus and upgrades.

Commander32

03-07-2012, 06:26 AM

Anyways, I can still post some more ideas when they pop in my head, okay? I've got plenty of creativity, just none of the technical skills needed to express it.

Well, a good modder needs to have both. You have to work for it... And ask nicely.

Golan2781

03-07-2012, 07:11 AM

WhiteDragon, of course you can go on posting your ideas but keep mind it will probably not result in anything. People capable of modding usually aren't the kind of persons waiting for other to have ideas, they are busy implementing their own. Mod teams usually only form around truly creative ideas with a solid plan, the later of which means that the creator has a solid understanding of modding.
I sincerely suggest you give modding yourself another go, it's not that difficult to get into. If you run into problems, feel free to ask for help.
Perhaps basing your initial experiments on a small, existing mod would help. I'd highly recommend working with EA's SampleMod for a start, but you might have use for the Titan Source (http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20460) or our more specialized SampleMods (http://www.thundermods.net/index.php?page=downloads&action=category&id=12).

Try to get the SampleMod compiled (to check that your ModSDK works correctly), then try small alterations (HitPoints, Cost), next try adding functionality to an object (like Stealth Detection), then adding a cloned object.
You might want to give Bibber's SDK Expansion (http://bibber.bplaced.net/index.php?site=downloads&cat=3#3) a try, it includes some changes to the build process that make it easier to use.

WhiteDragon25

03-07-2012, 07:17 PM

Commander32

03-07-2012, 09:25 PM

Well, at the moment I only have the Kane's Wrath Mod SDK/WrathEd that I downloaded from Moddb, so is there anything else that I need? It would greatly help if I could get the whole process as simplified as possible. It would also help with a step-by-step walkthrough on how to use it (not that I'm demanding it, just that it'll help).

Try these.

http://www.moddb.com/games/cc-tiberium-wars/tutorials

Also you can goo ahead and ask questions here, and on any other CnC modding community forum like CnC labs, PPM, thundermods, and so forth.

WhiteDragon25

03-12-2012, 08:54 PM

OK, I'm back... Sorry about not being here a while, but I've managed to install the TW Mod SDK and took a look at the tutorial page you recommended, Commander32, and I have to say, it really helped! The only issue I'm having at the moment is getting the FirstMod built... due to no "ealamodstudio.exe" in the ModSDK directory... which apparently was part of Bibbler's pack... which I can't get due to the F#&KING LINK BEING BROKEN!!:mad: *Sounds of Incomprehensible Rage*

...Sorry about that, but can you link me to Bibbler's download page (without the broken link part), or at least a copy of Bibbler's C&C Extras?

Commander32

03-12-2012, 09:03 PM

Looks like Bibber's website is down... :/

You can ask him yourself for a link.

WhiteDragon25

03-12-2012, 09:09 PM

Oookaay... Where can I find him on the forums? If not here, got any ideas on where he may be?

EDIT: Nevermind, his site's back up, and I managed to download the Mod SDK Expansion he has. NOW I have the problem of the EALAModStudio not working when I start it. Some help, please?

EDIT #2: Nevermind *again*, just re-downloaded the SDK Expansion and copied all the files again, so it now works... but for some reason I can't build the FirstMod, even though I followed all the directions from the tutorial page down to the "Editing Main Mod.xml file" part... was there something I missed? The EALAModStudio was going on about some "Object reference not set to an instance of an object"...

EDIT #3: Nevermind *AGAIN*, I apparently missed a file to copy... It's working now.

WhiteDragon25

03-12-2012, 10:45 PM

And... no it's not. Something about path to 'C:\Program Files\...\FirstMod\mod.babproj' being denied... any explanations?

On an unrelated note, apparently I can only do three edits to a single post. Who knew!:rolleyes:

Commander32

03-12-2012, 10:59 PM

Anyway you shall get there, and you shall learn.

Heres another place where you can get some tips from.

http://forums.cncnz.com/topic/14298-cc3-mod-sdk-and-wb-faq-updated-11152011/

WhiteDragon25

03-12-2012, 11:55 PM

Thanks, my earlier posts pretty much displayed my natural pessimism, but with those tutorials, I'm getting there... Slowly...

Anyways, about the issue in my last post: any explanation on what that is? Every time I press the 'Build Mod' button on the window, it comes up with that notice. I did EXACTLY what the Moddb tutorial page said, (in order to get a feel for the thing), yet this keeps happening.

Commander32

03-13-2012, 12:26 AM

Make sure you checked everything on that Build Mod Studio cept The Clears, The copy files is optional.

WhiteDragon25

03-13-2012, 01:08 AM

Okay, check-marked everything except the Clear options, and it's STILL not working. Anything else?

Bibber

03-13-2012, 01:30 AM

The problem is the location you where installed the SDK. Try running the ModStudio as admin. If it's not working, try installing the SDK in another location (not in C:\Program Files).

WhiteDragon25

03-13-2012, 01:51 AM

Finally managed to get it working, built FirstMod, and tested it in-game, but for some reason the "Cheap Riflemen Squad" don't show up at all. I'm pretty sure I followed all the directions; was there something I missed?

WhiteDragon25

03-14-2012, 02:00 AM

Um... Guys? Anybody going to help me? For some reason, when I built the SampleMod and tested it in-game, it worked, yet when I built the FirstMod and tested it in-game, it doesn't even though I followed all the directions in the Moddb tutorial page... I think. Any explanations on what the problem is?

Commander32

03-14-2012, 02:19 AM

see that mod xml file? did it have all the xml files you want?

The Mod xml file is where you need to reference all the other files you want in.

Here is an example.

I want to use combat engineers instead of the stock ones so...

<AssetDeclaration xmlns="uri:ea.com:eala:asset" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
<Tags></Tags><Includes>

<Include type="reference" source="DATA:static.xml" />
<Include type="reference" source="DATA:global.xml" />

<Include type="all" source="CommandData.xml" />
<Include type="all" source="Images.xml" />
<Include type="all" source="SoundMod.xml" />
<Include type="all" source="Weapon.xml" />
<Include type="all" source="ExperienceLevels.xml" />
<Include type="all" source="GDICombatEngineer.xml" />

</Includes></AssetDeclaration>

That is all the things I need to use the Combat Engi.

I can explain the other tidbits like Commanddata and Images if you so need.

WhiteDragon25

03-14-2012, 03:14 AM

My main problem is that the cost, name, and description of the unit (in this case, the GDI Rifleman Squad) has not changed despite me having edited everything needed according to the Moddb page. If I can't get this simple test done right, then I'm at a dead end.

I think a comparison test would help with solving the problem. That Moddb page you posted earlier? If you were to follow the directions on that page (the coding page), and ran it in-game, if it works or not, you should be able to find what the problem on my end is. I'm sure I followed everything to the letter, but I probably must have missed something. (Not that you have to do it, that is.)