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  • Game Feature Return to the basics

    #1
    Subject:
    Return to the basics

    Description:
    Return to the basics of Real-Time-Strategy, focusing on resource gathering, management, deployment, and tactical maneuvering.

    Positive Effect:
    Broad appeal as the basics are easy for new people to pick up and the mastery comes from implementation of tactics and strategy instead of speed of user's interfacing.

    Negative Effect:
    Hard-core (APS-focused) gamers will be discouraged. Many will decry the absence of their personal fantasies (Mai the Psychic Girl / dolphins with rockets on their backs)

    Media:
    APS video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbpCLqryN-Q


    My recommendation is that the franchise return to what made it great in most of the most successful iterations - C&C, C&C3, RA, RA2, and especially Yuri. I would include the following aspects as "basics":

    1. Elements in play are easy to understand.
    - A tank looks and acts like a tank. Infantry run on their feet and carry guns. Planes fly and helicopters fly and can hover. By having units (and buildings) that are easily recognized and behave in expected ways, the player can focus more on creating and using those resources and less on discovering which rock needs to hit what scissors so they can protect their paper. It should be obvious that a man cannot defeat a tank, unless that man is carrying a tank-killing bazooka (and one can see that weapon on the man.)

    2. The collection of Tiberium is 50% of the game. The other 50% is making sure the other guy doesn't get to.
    - The coin of the realm is Tiberium. Gathering it from the environment is what allows the player to build resources and deploy them. Resource gathering has been marginalized by the node-point system popularized in the Dawn of War series. Although it is easier to eliminate resource gathering than to balance it, the fundamental cycle of C&C style gameplay is built on the gathering of resources that are spread out all over the entire map (and are sometimes repopulated randomly). This is what makes the entire map valuable and avoids the chessboard maps we see in current "RTS" games. Removing the harvesters is one of the principle reasons any RTS game becomes a RTT (Real Time Tactical) game.

    3. Keep it intimate and tangible - abstracts are for ADD players.
    - Superweapons are an excellent method of discouraging turtling, but are a terrible way to drive strategic gameplay. Basic units --> sporadic "special use" attacks --> superweapons. A game that has 5-10 nukes launched in a single session is a game that has abandoned players who want to actually have a battle in the field.

    4. Multiplayer should be focused on teamwork, not playing side-by-side.
    - Allow players to integrate in multiplayer. There's no reason one player's APC couldn't carry an allied players men. Yet this is common in the new iterations. If I can build tunnels from one place to another, my ally should be allowed to use those same tunnels. RA2's Allied IFV was probably the most brilliant unit ever put into the game by merit of being able to put in soviet units as well. The Battle Tank goes similarly. Why can't I lend my Ally money? Why can't I "gift" units? Are we allies or not? I'm still confused by why two players cannot have one cursor each and control one base together.

    Focusing on what made the original C&C great - simple units, easy-to-understand tactics, and a fight for terrain that mattered - is my recommendation.
    Last edited by GrinR; 05-17-2011, 10:44 PM.

  • #2
    I agree with this thread. It's well written and explained too, kudos on that

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    • #3
      I couldn't agree more. The games mentioned are the best Command and Conquer titles to date. Maybe one more suggestion to this thread. Get rid of the RIDICULOUS lines around the units. Bring back the Tiberium Wars graphics. Those were awesome.

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      • #4
        I also agree completely with this thread. These recommendations must be taken seriously in consideration in order to make a C&C game that really is a C&C game!

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        • #5
          I agree

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          • #6
            I agree

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            • #7
              very well-written and for one shows good understanding of what rts is - posts like this are rare on these forums
              i agree

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              • #8
                I AGREE!
                they should compete ageinst starcraft not warhammer.

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                • #9
                  yes like the old westwood days.

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                  • #10
                    While I can relate with the gist of the OPs post I'm not sure that C&C3 is a good example for your cause. It is the second worst game in the franchise because the gameplay was utterly flat and uninteresting, the diversity was non-existent with clone armies, the art designs (of almost everything) were atrociously bad and importantly what balance was there besides spamming tanks... In fact C&C:RA and even C&C:TD had more gameplay finesse than the huge backwards step that was C&C3.

                    You clearly have an understanding of the core appeal of the franchise even though you seem to not acknowledge the significant contributions of Generals and RA3. Generals gameplay is highly acclaimed not because it doesn't implement the basics, but because it builds apon them with hundreds of new gameplay mechanics that didn't affect the core gameplay style. RA3 had an excellent gameplay system with land-sea-air integration despite its flawed resource model and bizzare 'anime' aesthetic. So in essence every game in the franchise except C&C3 and C&C4 has something excellent to contribute to the next game as long as the core gameplay is unchanged!

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                    • #11
                      cnc3 was a pretty diverse game - and far more than the classic cnc games like cnc1/ra1.
                      ra1/ra2 were infact 10x more about 1unit spam than cnc3.

                      sure the tech trees for the factions were entirely identical (that i agree was a let-down, and was something EA did far better in ra3) but their playstyles werent... and do you cnc3-haters ever bother to try a game beyond its release version (which in cnc3's case was a broken piece of crap)?

                      but for the record cnc3+kw combined got over 10 patches that changed a TON and improved the gameplay by quite a bit especially with regards to the issues youre referring to

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                      • #12
                        Full AGREE!

                        Just bring back the old gameplay of Westwood in our time today and the majority would be happy about a good old command & conquer game!
                        Last edited by Srefanius; 05-18-2011, 01:44 PM.

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                        • #13
                          1 up for you

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                          • #14
                            @CraztGDIfan

                            C&C: RA and C&C: TD had more finesse because losing units and structures mattered. Tactical postioning and timing in the original games was also crucial to success. A single properly positioned Rocketeer could decimate a tank column, even a well timed grenade throw could explode clusters of infantry. Teching to Cruiser for a flanking base strike or a well placed C4 that knocked off power and production just enough to break an opponent are just a few among the many viable tactics. The original games rewarded the intimate tactician and strategist. In C&C3 victory is ensured by nothing but fast steamrolled spam. While you're trying to play with finesse the opponent already has his second wave at your base having easily bypassed all your obstacles. Tactical positioning and timing, unit type and abilities are irrelevant when you can quickly replace your tank loses and be at your opponents base soon after your first wave. In my experience C&C3 is the lesser game.

                            Heh, you got me spot on. For this long time C&C fan (since RA) the DEMO was enough to put me off. I did consider getting Kane's Wrath for the 'promised' diversity but there were already wholly (art, design, diversity) superior alternatives available. If you've been playing some of those excellent Generals mods, C&C3 felt generic and uninspired to the max.

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                            • #15
                              @cybaspark: I don't know why you keep bringing Generals up. Generals is everythinig C&C isn't. Great game but it should have just been Generals and not a C&C game. With that said I personally think that C&C3 is one the best C&C games out there. RA3 wasn't that great (fun for a while but soon lost interest) and I don't even want to begin with C&C 4. C&C is about the fun and the non-realistic approach. But with the real graphics and not the cartoony style as in RA3 and C&C4.

                              C&C 3 has, granted after 9 patches, been a great experience and a great game. I played it well over 100 hours. Can't say the same for Generals/Zero Hour or RA3/C&C4.

                              To get back on topic, I still agree.

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