Topic: Veteranization
Should the new CnC delve into a new veteran system?
The current system is based on the cost or veterancy of the enemy units that you kill.
Whereas RA3 adjusts this by threat level.
CnC3 has an oddball combined veterancy system...amount of combat time, and kills. Sometimes the units instantly vet up after a certain amount of combat time, without really killing anything.
Concept:
Traditionally since TS [Tiberium Sun] Veterancy has been implemented. TS and RA2 had only two levels of vet, veteran and heroic, while Generals, CnC3, and RA3 [if I am not mistaken CnC4 as well.] have a three level vet system...veteran (one bar), elite (two bar), and heroic (three bar/star)
Here are some comparable systems of veterancy from other videogames.
Upgraded Unit Vet ...usually found in the Age of Empires III, Star Craft, and Supreme Commander series. Units are upgraded to their next form via purchases from their upgrade buildings...usually the production building for said units. It changes all of the stats of the unit, but doesn't allow back teching to a lower unit.
Upgraded Blanket Unit Vet...only found in company of heroes...with the Wermacht faction. Veterancy is three tiered...1,2,3; but cut into specific classes...Infantry, Support, Light Vehicles, and Tanks. And these upgrades are purchased with resources from a unique veterancy structure, which is built separately from any production structure. Each level of veterancy effects base units and stats uniquely Once purchased veterancy remains throughout game.
Typical Veterancy- almost all games use this now, killing off units or being in combat enough times will cause a veterancy upgrade to engage. However, this can achieved multiple ways or implemented in different ways.
3 Tier Vet- very common.
5 Tier-very uncommon [rare]
10 Tier-very uncommon [rare]
Vet Mode choice uncommon
Vet Officer or Area Shared Vet uncommon
Combat time vet uncommon
5 Tier Vet- unique to the Atari Act of War High Treason game. 5 Levels of vet 1 bar to 4 bar...and final vet is a Star. However, it has a unique advantage over all other vetting systems. At fifth level [star] any fully vetted unit applies a one rank bonus vet bonus to all units in a limited radius. So all unvetted units gain a pseudo veteran rank. and vetted units gain an additional rank. This is a little unusual in the fact that ground units can influence air and sea units nearby with this bonus, and vice versa. It rewards a good player with a unique bonus for getting their units to full vet.
10 Tier Vet- unique to Warzone 2100. 10 levels of vet 1 to 10...units can gain vet up to five stars. And the full power of the units is realized at full vet. But the requirements to vet the units is extreme, so it is rare for units with the highest vet level to appear, although this system was designed for the games campaign system as noted, not so much for skirmish or multiplayer. Although there is a unique surprise to this system. Vet can be "recycled" if you decide to re-call your modular unit to create a newer and more efficient unit, the unit is decommissioned, and the newest unit out of the warfactory or airfield will have that decommissioned units vet. So as long as the unit is not killed in combat your vet lives on. Campaign it's persistent...multiplayer and skirmish not so much.
Vet Mode Choice- unique to Company of Heroes with their Panzer Elite faction. Each time a PE unit vets you can chose between offensive or defensive veterancy. Offensive increases accuracy, firepower, firerate, and or damage dealt, but defensive increases speed, armor, Health points, and in the case of PE infantry slow HP regen. Now you can go straight defensive or offensive, or a mixture which makes each PE unit unique in their abilities and lethality and efficiency in game. There are only 3 vet levels, but two choices to apply that vet level.
Vet Officer and Area Shared Vet-unique to Company of Heroes with the British faction (officer) while shared area vet is common between the PE, British, and American factions. Vet Officer is the specific use of a unit, in the case of COH Brits Lieutenant (3), Captain (1), and Command Tank (1)...these units are used to give certain blanket bonuses to certain types of units. Lieutenants effect infantry, Captain increases defensive bonuses in a sector area, and vets off of units/structures within that sector, and the Command Tank only effect vehicle units. Now these officer units are the only units that vet, but because they have area effects...they apply the vet bonuses to all units within a specific radius of them.
Area shared Vet...is more common among the PE, and Americans. This means non-combat units like the Swimmwagen, Kettenkrad, and Munition Halftrack can be vetted off excess vet points bleeding off the kills of vetting up units. In the case of combat units...if a unit kills off a unit the vet points will bleed off it, and effect other code units within their radius of operation or next to it. So one unit could get instant Level 3 Vet for killing a hostile target, but then it boosts its neighbor unit by one vet level because the points from that kill bleed off. Also kills from fully vetted units effects unvetted units. So it gives you a way of upgrading veterancy by conserving your fully vetted units.
Combat Time Vet-only known in Axis and Allies unit doesn't vet on the number of kills, it vets on the amount of combat time it has accrued. The longer one of these units is in play, the stronger it becomes. This vet system only had 3 vet levels. The third level requiring a fairly heavy amount of micro management. This highest vet level...boosted units stats to a very substantial amount stacking with faction specific upgrades and bonuses from terrain the unit is deployed over.
Now I know that in CnC3 there is a combination of Combat Time and Typical Vet...because I have experienced it several times. Where a unit would suddenly vet up, but not make a single kill.
I am not sure if vet changes would be good, but it is a combat scenario.
Pros: Changes in vet system and how it effects overall game play, could force players to conserve their units, or reward them with certain bonuses that only come active with the units affected.
Adding a system of veterancy storage...which has been around since Star Wars Force Commander for singleplayer, but only recently moved to multiplayer with Dawn of War II.
Cons: Some forms of vet are far easier to exploit and abuse than others. (The blanket vet system of COH has been always blamed for and caused controversy over a tactic called Pio Spam...which is comparable to Zerging in SC...but with veterancy!)
Some veterancy would require a persistent storage of vetted units, so you can deploy them in later games (at supposedly higher cost) , which can be unfair to some players who don't have vetted units.
Should the new CnC delve into a new veteran system?
The current system is based on the cost or veterancy of the enemy units that you kill.
Whereas RA3 adjusts this by threat level.
CnC3 has an oddball combined veterancy system...amount of combat time, and kills. Sometimes the units instantly vet up after a certain amount of combat time, without really killing anything.
Concept:
Traditionally since TS [Tiberium Sun] Veterancy has been implemented. TS and RA2 had only two levels of vet, veteran and heroic, while Generals, CnC3, and RA3 [if I am not mistaken CnC4 as well.] have a three level vet system...veteran (one bar), elite (two bar), and heroic (three bar/star)
Here are some comparable systems of veterancy from other videogames.
Upgraded Unit Vet ...usually found in the Age of Empires III, Star Craft, and Supreme Commander series. Units are upgraded to their next form via purchases from their upgrade buildings...usually the production building for said units. It changes all of the stats of the unit, but doesn't allow back teching to a lower unit.
Upgraded Blanket Unit Vet...only found in company of heroes...with the Wermacht faction. Veterancy is three tiered...1,2,3; but cut into specific classes...Infantry, Support, Light Vehicles, and Tanks. And these upgrades are purchased with resources from a unique veterancy structure, which is built separately from any production structure. Each level of veterancy effects base units and stats uniquely Once purchased veterancy remains throughout game.
Typical Veterancy- almost all games use this now, killing off units or being in combat enough times will cause a veterancy upgrade to engage. However, this can achieved multiple ways or implemented in different ways.
3 Tier Vet- very common.
5 Tier-very uncommon [rare]
10 Tier-very uncommon [rare]
Vet Mode choice uncommon
Vet Officer or Area Shared Vet uncommon
Combat time vet uncommon
5 Tier Vet- unique to the Atari Act of War High Treason game. 5 Levels of vet 1 bar to 4 bar...and final vet is a Star. However, it has a unique advantage over all other vetting systems. At fifth level [star] any fully vetted unit applies a one rank bonus vet bonus to all units in a limited radius. So all unvetted units gain a pseudo veteran rank. and vetted units gain an additional rank. This is a little unusual in the fact that ground units can influence air and sea units nearby with this bonus, and vice versa. It rewards a good player with a unique bonus for getting their units to full vet.
10 Tier Vet- unique to Warzone 2100. 10 levels of vet 1 to 10...units can gain vet up to five stars. And the full power of the units is realized at full vet. But the requirements to vet the units is extreme, so it is rare for units with the highest vet level to appear, although this system was designed for the games campaign system as noted, not so much for skirmish or multiplayer. Although there is a unique surprise to this system. Vet can be "recycled" if you decide to re-call your modular unit to create a newer and more efficient unit, the unit is decommissioned, and the newest unit out of the warfactory or airfield will have that decommissioned units vet. So as long as the unit is not killed in combat your vet lives on. Campaign it's persistent...multiplayer and skirmish not so much.
Vet Mode Choice- unique to Company of Heroes with their Panzer Elite faction. Each time a PE unit vets you can chose between offensive or defensive veterancy. Offensive increases accuracy, firepower, firerate, and or damage dealt, but defensive increases speed, armor, Health points, and in the case of PE infantry slow HP regen. Now you can go straight defensive or offensive, or a mixture which makes each PE unit unique in their abilities and lethality and efficiency in game. There are only 3 vet levels, but two choices to apply that vet level.
Vet Officer and Area Shared Vet-unique to Company of Heroes with the British faction (officer) while shared area vet is common between the PE, British, and American factions. Vet Officer is the specific use of a unit, in the case of COH Brits Lieutenant (3), Captain (1), and Command Tank (1)...these units are used to give certain blanket bonuses to certain types of units. Lieutenants effect infantry, Captain increases defensive bonuses in a sector area, and vets off of units/structures within that sector, and the Command Tank only effect vehicle units. Now these officer units are the only units that vet, but because they have area effects...they apply the vet bonuses to all units within a specific radius of them.
Area shared Vet...is more common among the PE, and Americans. This means non-combat units like the Swimmwagen, Kettenkrad, and Munition Halftrack can be vetted off excess vet points bleeding off the kills of vetting up units. In the case of combat units...if a unit kills off a unit the vet points will bleed off it, and effect other code units within their radius of operation or next to it. So one unit could get instant Level 3 Vet for killing a hostile target, but then it boosts its neighbor unit by one vet level because the points from that kill bleed off. Also kills from fully vetted units effects unvetted units. So it gives you a way of upgrading veterancy by conserving your fully vetted units.
Combat Time Vet-only known in Axis and Allies unit doesn't vet on the number of kills, it vets on the amount of combat time it has accrued. The longer one of these units is in play, the stronger it becomes. This vet system only had 3 vet levels. The third level requiring a fairly heavy amount of micro management. This highest vet level...boosted units stats to a very substantial amount stacking with faction specific upgrades and bonuses from terrain the unit is deployed over.
Now I know that in CnC3 there is a combination of Combat Time and Typical Vet...because I have experienced it several times. Where a unit would suddenly vet up, but not make a single kill.
I am not sure if vet changes would be good, but it is a combat scenario.
Pros: Changes in vet system and how it effects overall game play, could force players to conserve their units, or reward them with certain bonuses that only come active with the units affected.
Adding a system of veterancy storage...which has been around since Star Wars Force Commander for singleplayer, but only recently moved to multiplayer with Dawn of War II.
Cons: Some forms of vet are far easier to exploit and abuse than others. (The blanket vet system of COH has been always blamed for and caused controversy over a tactic called Pio Spam...which is comparable to Zerging in SC...but with veterancy!)
Some veterancy would require a persistent storage of vetted units, so you can deploy them in later games (at supposedly higher cost) , which can be unfair to some players who don't have vetted units.
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