Return to the basics

[Uarepoo2]

RA2 and C&C 3 is the way to go, no doubt about it!

[Geogun]

I support this post. I do wish that you would have included Generals as a reference though; because I feel that Generals was a ground-breaking improvement on the RTS genre that seems to have dulled out for (as you put it) APM-spam RTS.

Starcraft is the Call of Duty of the RTS genre; where C&C should be the Battlefield. Call of Duty is fast paced, confined, and intended for the ADHD gamer community (who can click the fastest!?!?!); where as, Battlefield is more open-ended, requires strategy to be effective, and can easily be played and enjoyed by the casual/slow-paced gamer.

[GeneralSGJist]

When returning to the basics, keep in mind that that is often not enough, we want to see new things, and extend the basics, and refine them to the point of near perfection.

We want gameplay and mechanics inspired from but not same as older games.

We Want diverse factions, which are also balanced.

We want a coherent story, and something that can be built on, not clear one time flings, which is what Ra3 made.

we ant a world builder and an SDK

We want new stats

And much more.

[MILINTarctrooper]

Agreed, the CnC franchise was more about actual strategy, and thinking out placement. We randomly dropped into a place on the map at the start of game, had to clear out the shroud to find our enemies, and then patrol to keep the fog of war clear. We had to find our resources, and enemies. The current CnC is too (As the poster duly noted) "APM friendly." The old CnC games were with a mouse, and had a ridiculously tiny number of hotkeys...usually based only on camera motion or unit actions. That was all, no need to plunk away at that keyboard! This is not typing class! Also there was chokes in built...only one unit could be built at a time at a set production speed rate, if you wanted it to go faster you had to build more production buildings to speed up production.

I would however, disagree with cybaspark that RA3 was "core gameplay" okay. That game has so many exploitables, and problems it is not even funny. Akula sniping from half the map range, Shotgun Naganata. Self-repairing MCV's. The resource system was almost exactly like Generals. The integration of Air and Sea was flawed...one faction could easily dominate the other...by shoving off into the sea. Rising Sun and Soviet Players could easily overwhelm any comers in submarine warfare. And the capacity of huge interlocking abilities was just so wrong.

Generals however, although a novelty for us old School CnC die-hards...actually was well thought out and balanced. each faction had different ways to collect resources. $1200 Chinook that collects $600 in supplies $600 Supply Truck that collects $300 of supplies and a 125 or $200 worker that collects $75 supplies. So I can get 2 Chinooks at $2400...and a Supply Yard for $1500 and a $800 Powerplant and I have spent $4700 to get a $1800 per cycle (including the free Chinook that comes with the Supply Yard.) supply system. However a single $700 Quad Cannon AA system can kill off my investment in one go. In comparison to CnC3, CnC4, and RA3; General's has increased risks and costs...because you have purchase builder units...so if I kill those I have for all intents and purposes beheaded by opponents capacity to wage war. Also, the fact that all production buildings have a limit cap (9 units total can be qued up to be produced ) You don't see that balance in CnC3, RA3, or CnC4. (Although CnC4 has an RTT pop cap.)

[Raydenos]

Firstly, Command and conquer 4 and crawlers were a terrible idea, with crawlers instead of real buildings it felt as if it was NO LONGER COMMAND AND CONQUER.

The game doesn't need to have some some odd building/unit producing system to be good, stick to what is tried and true!!!

RETURN TO BASICS, get a great storyline, DO NO TAKE ACTORS FROM WELL KNOWN television series - they look kitchy in a computer game, I don't want to see someone I have been watching for the last 10 seasons of battlestar galactica.

Don't use the bluebox only in the FMVs, try to be creative, go outdoors, create something spectacular, but at the same time don't try to make those FMVs funny or silly, the story has to be a serious one!, there isn't only good and evil in the world, and in life there aren't any happy andings in real life.

The best example what tone should the FMVs have is COMMAND AND CONQUER RED ALERT 1.
Even though the allies won the war the end was a tragic and serious one, the same was in the soviet campaign.

A lot of good games were broken just because they changed the basics the game has been built upon, look at heroes of might and magic 3 versus Heroes of might and magic 4 which was a total disaster. Sometimes only what it takes to break a game is a minor change, like the camera, left/right mouse button, building system, building time to break the game.

BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL what you are doing.

[Giovingo]

I agree whole heartedly

Classic Westwood style gameplay, and I also think Game cinematics, such as the live action movies and cut scenes, should be in the new game. and as for new material, i say bring back the forgotten and make them a playable faction.

Victory Games needs to be the new Westwood

[StuntedX]

When returning to the basics, keep in mind that that is often not enough, we want to see new things, and extend the basics, and refine them to the point of near perfection.

We want gameplay and mechanics inspired from but not same as older games.

We Want diverse factions, which are also balanced.

We want a coherent story, and something that can be built on, not clear one time flings, which is what Ra3 made.

we ant a world builder and an SDK

We want new stats

And much more.

Why are you saying 'we' as if you're speaking for the entire community? How do you know we want new things? How do you know that we don't want the Cyborgs from Tiberian Sun to come back? Nothing is perfect, and nothing can ever be perfect. We don't know what perfect actually is. RA3's story... RA3's story was a rehash of RA1 and RA2. It wasn't new. At least RA2 was different from RA1. In which case the Allies continued on from when Einstein got rid of Hitler. RA3 pelted the Soviets versus the Allies again and were losing. So they got desperate and used their time machine and killed of Einstein the same way Einstein killed off Hitler to prevent WWII. Except it back fired and created the Empire of the Rising Sun. (Sound like Yuri's Revenge yet?)

Now I can't speak for majority, but I believe that when RA3 was still in development people didn't like what they were seeing. I know I wasn't. A world builder and SDK for mods is perfectly understandable. That allows the community to develop some neat stuff for the engine. Statistics are irrelevant. It doesn't make the gameplay. It just enhances a player's ego.

When I see this thread, "Return To The Basics," I imagine the command bar on the right, not too big, not too small, and that smaller command bar in the bottom left. I imagine Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 again. Because those were the best C&C games, imo. And I'm pretty sure a lot of people agree with me when I say that.

[davidleo16]

I agree... nowadays... I stil playing Tiberian Sun, Tiberium Wars and Kane's Wrath... and my favourite of the three was TS... i don't know why but that game simply gets me very much fun than the others... RA3, CNC4... simply crap!

[WeedWhacker92]

When I think of returning to the basics, I think of going back to what really made a game originally stand out from others at its time, and work from there to create a new game.

For example, if it's not broke, don't fix it. There was not a problem with having a classic RTS feel in the last few games, with the construction of a base, building of an army, and gathering resources. Not saying C&C 4 jumped the shark with its newer "innovations" to appeal to a larger crowd, as I only played in the beta, but instead of buying a shiny new faucet to replace a dull rusted out one on a sink (metaphorically speaking), C&C 4 replaced the used faucet with a shower head and used a whole roll of duct tape to make sure it fit into place properly.

When thinking of new innovations to place into a game, start with the basics of the C&C franchise and what made it successful in the first place, I.E. RTS gameplay with construction of a base, ability to gather resources, and the ability to build an army, all topped of with good balancing and a decent storyline (at least along the lines of C movie scripting, not to push the bar too high) to make a campaign actually seem relevant, THEN try to think of things to add into the gameplay to create a diverse RTS experience.

[MILINTarctrooper]

When I think of returning to the basics, I think of going back to what really made a game originally stand out from others at its time, and work from there to create a new game.

For example, if it's not broke, don't fix it. There was not a problem with having a classic RTS feel in the last few games, with the construction of a base, building of an army, and gathering resources. Not saying C&C 4 jumped the shark with its newer "innovations" to appeal to a larger crowd, as I only played in the beta, but instead of buying a shiny new faucet to replace a dull rusted out one on a sink (metaphorically speaking), C&C 4 replaced the used faucet with a shower head and used a whole roll of duct tape to make sure it fit into place properly.

When thinking of new innovations to place into a game, start with the basics of the C&C franchise and what made it successful in the first place, I.E. RTS gameplay with construction of a base, ability to gather resources, and the ability to build an army, all topped of with good balancing and a decent storyline (at least along the lines of C movie scripting, not to push the bar too high) to make a campaign actually seem relevant, THEN try to think of things to add into the gameplay to create a diverse RTS experience.

In this case, we are having to do full out renovations on both series, because the "water damage" from the installment of the showerhead has ruined alot of things.

I personally would love a re-vamp of the old CnC titles to 3-D standards, which would give the developers at VG the time to polish, and learn from the past. And develope the skills and background to be able to make the new CnC titles.