Ditch the cartoony graphics + Sage engine

[Commander_McNash]

A serious plot will not only make the gameplay more engaging, it will actually show how skillful is the guionist and art team at Victory Games are, it's actually easy to make a unit or faction cartoonish and then justify all its powers by telling people not to take it seriously, but you see real talent (*points at Warhammer 40000 and Games Workshop*) when you are capable to create a plot where even irrational things are actually explained in a way you can believe it to be pausible, heck, I believe more in the Gods of Chaos and their denizens than the cryocopter's S.H.R.I.N.K ray.

[paddl]

@Timmaigh:
"cartoony (cell-shaded)"

You just made my day xD
Show me one cnc with cell-shaded graphics ! only one title !



Here is a nice picture to show you what cell shading is oO
cnc was never cell shaded...

Red alert 3 has great graphics. I Only dislike some unit designs and the story.
I´m not realy interested in graphics, so they can make it a little cartoonish or not. Important is the final feeling of the game. Unit design, gameplay, story, map-details and so on.

New Engnine? well...maybe, don´t know what a new engine should do. Destructible setting? bigger maps? I don´t know. The unit details are awesome in ra3 and some mods.

[Timmaigh]

@Timmaigh:
"cartoony (cell-shaded)"

You just made my day xD
Schow me one cnc with cell-shaded graphics ! only one title !



Here is a nice picture to show you what cell shading is oO
cnc was never cell shaded...

Red alert 3 has great graphics. I Only dislike some unit designs and the story.
I´m not realy interested in graphics, so they can make it a little cartoonish or not. Important is the final feeling of the game. Unit design, gameplay, story, map-details and so on.

New Engnine? well...maybe, don´t know what a new engine should do. Destructible setting? bigger maps? I don´t know. The unit details are awesome in ra3 and some mods.

I know, what cell-shaded means. For some reason i remembered the infantry units in RA3 to have a black "outline", so i concluded it was at least partially cell-shaded. Well, havent played the game last 2 years, mistakes happen...

It still does not change my opinion, that the next CnC should drop this cartoony **** and return to its roots, serious style of original CnC and Red Alert or Generals respectively.
BTW the cartoony childish graphics and animation of StarCraft 2 is what completely defeats the purpose of its semi-serious campaign. You watch all those HD movies between missions, although not completely realistic, but still good enough to immerse you into the story... then the mission loads and BOOM! youre in control of some colorful toys in Kindergarten. Thats why SC2 is never a patch of single-player of Homeworld, no matter how good story or those videos will be, the in-game graphics will take all the credibility away.

[paddl]

well, I realy can´t remember a C&C game, with realy serious graphics. Of course RA2 and RA2 are more "cartoony" then other cncs, but generals looks like paper toys to me and I can´t see bog differences to tiberian sun and star Craft. SC2 remembered me realy much to TS in fact I thought something like "that´s a better TS, as TS itself xD" as I start to play SC2. Can´t find big cartoon stuff in that game. Okay, the units are realy colorfull but not more then the units in TD or RA1.
As someone said allready the Ore in RA1 was yellow and you had to harvest red yellow and blue diamonds.
TS and Generals are the only cncs with a kind of serious graphics and I think both are the cncs with the most boring graphics.
Not that it wasn´t still great games.

[EvilConker]

It's unfair to say that RA3 "suffered" from cartoony graphics, it fit the art style perfectly, that's not suffering, that's great.

However, for C&C4 it wasn't its place to have "cartoony" graphics.

However, for Generals, I think it would benefit from a meeting ground between both. I would hate for Generals to become a more "serious" game, as the original really wasn't serious at all. It lampooned subjects such as terrorism and China by making them completely over the top.

Also, there's no justifying nuclear artillery in an ultra-realistic setting, or propoganda towers healing their units, or giant tanks that are both capable of running over tanks, as well as carry an entire bunker on their back.

[Timmaigh]

It's unfair to say that RA3 "suffered" from cartoony graphics, it fit the art style perfectly, that's not suffering, that's great.

However, for C&C4 it wasn't its place to have "cartoony" graphics.

However, for Generals, I think it would benefit from a meeting ground between both. I would hate for Generals to become a more "serious" game, as the original really wasn't serious at all. It lampooned subjects such as terrorism and China by making them completely over the top.

Also, there's no justifying nuclear artillery in an ultra-realistic setting, or propoganda towers healing their units, or giant tanks that are both capable of running over tanks, as well as carry an entire bunker on their back.

With RA3, the cartoony graphics is just a symptom of the bigger issue, which is overall cheesy, wanna-be funny, boobs-centered style of the game. I never understood, why the thought people want to command schoolgirls, armored bears or ninjas instead of tanks and war-planes. Personally i think my affinition to RTSes is down to my interest in weapons, technologies, i like the uniformity of the marching troops/tanks and epicness of plane formations...somehow i would think this is what most people like about it, and its definitely not there with bunch of schoolgirls...

Regarding next Generals, i do not think anyone means by serious game no Overlords or Propaganda Towers...its true they might not be completely realistic, but the point is, they are not RIDICULOUS and NOT completely unrelated to military. Generals had its share of humour, like those GLA peasants and "shoes" upgrade, or bit sci-fi stuff like lasers on planes, but overall it was quite serious game, where you really felt to be in command of a slightly futuristic version of modern day military, not some sort of circus...

This is what i expect, no DEMAND, from next CnC, even if it was Red Alert game.

[paddl]

The biggest problem I can see here is, that some guys are thinking that all cartoon stuff is childs play and bad and only 10 years old boys can like it.
some people do not have enough fantasy I think so. yuriko is a great unit. She is nearly the same unit as Yuri.
She has nearly the same skills as yuri had, but uses them differently.
But she is not as good as yuri, because she is a girl and yuri was a man. (?)
She is a school girl because she is a caricature of all the anime stuff from japan.
some guys know japan only bacause of animes and mangas, not because of their culture and so on. So it´s realy funny to have a shool girl as a psycho comando, because this guys can laugh about it. I can! And I like her. Not because she is a girl or because she has a school uniform. NO! because I like her skills. I liked Yuri because his skills too and not because I like old guys with beards.

And so I do with mostly every stupid unit in the red alert universe. Off course it´s not perfect! I realy can tell you 100 things I do not like about the last cncs. But it´s really not the graphics or the cartoon stuff.
"wanna-be funny" <-- I don´t realy think it´s EAs problem if some people has not the same humor as EA has. Off course RA3 is not as funny as RA2 but some times I realy liked the humor. If you only can see boobs in the last games, I have to ask you what du you have against boobs? (jokingly)
I don´t know. Wasn´t realy annoying to me.
The bears are not armored oO There is only one ninja (and also useless so I never use him) and every countrie has a tank and also planes. So I do not realy get your problem. I do not want to command real military stuff because I think it´s boring. If I want to see RL Tanks and stuff I can go to the "Bundeswehr" and become a soldier. But in fact i want to play a game! It´s like...chess!? it´s a game a game a...!
A to serious style would not be command and conquer. cnc never had only serious units. Not in TD not in RA2 not in TS, Generals...and so on. Why sould EA start with that now?

[Timmaigh]

The biggest problem I can see here is, that some guys are thinking that all cartoon stuff is childs play and bad and only 10 years old boys can like it.
some people do not have enough fantasy I think so. yuriko is a great unit. She is nearly the same unit as Yuri.
She has nearly the same skills as yuri had, but uses them differently.
But she is not as good as yuri, because she is a girl and yuri was a man. (?)
She is a school girl because she is a caricature of all the anime stuff from japan.
some guys know japan only bacause of animes and mangas, not because of their culture and so on. So it´s realy funny to have a shool girl as a psycho comando, because this guys can laugh about it. I can! And I like her. Not because she is a girl or because she has a school uniform. NO! because I like her skills. I liked Yuri because his skills too and not because I like old guys with beards.

And so I do with mostly every stupid unit in the red alert universe. Off course it´s not perfect! I realy can tell you 100 things I do not like about the last cncs. But it´s really not the graphics or the cartoon stuff.
"wanna-be funny" <-- I don´t realy think it´s EAs problem if some people has not the same humor as EA has. Off course RA3 is not as funny as RA2 but some times I realy liked the humor. If you only can see boobs in the last games, I have to ask you what du you have against boobs? (jokingly)
I don´t know. Wasn´t realy annoying to me.
The bears are not armored oO There is only one ninja (and also useless so I never use him) and every countrie has a tank and also planes. So I do not realy get your problem. I do not want to command real military stuff because I think it´s boring. If I want to see RL Tanks and stuff I can go to the "Bundeswehr" and become a soldier. But in fact i want to play a game! It´s like...chess!? it´s a game a game a...!
A to serious style would not be command and conquer. cnc never had only serious units. Not in TD not in RA2 not in TS, Generals...and so on. Why sould EA start with that now?

Well i never said i liked Yuri or RA2, the flying saucers in Yuris Revenge were as bad as Yuriko.

Again, i do not expect next Generals or next CnC to be completely realistic, i just want it to be military wargame. I want to be in command of tanks, which may be slightly unrealistic, bigger, with bunker or shoot laser, bot for god sake not shoot confetti, because its so f-u-n-n-y.... i want destroyers, but FFS not destroyers with treads, i want planes, but not transformers...

or do you want to tell me you prefer destroyer with treads, cause the real-world one with sonar, missile launcher, heliport and depthcharges is "boring?" So it needs to be completely ridiculous and over the top to be fun?

Just FYI, i have nothing against boobs, i just think they belong to Lula: Sexy Empire, not Red Alert.

[=LEVIATHEN=]

Subject:
[Ditch the cartoony graphics that haunted C&C 4 and Red Alert 3 & ditch the Sage engine ]
]

Description:
[First of all, i'd like to see a change in the artistic direction in a future C&C game. C&C 4, and especially C&C RA3 suffered from over the top cartoony graphics. I would like the world the feel grittier, a bit darker, more "real" (ESPECIALLY tibirium theatre). Also ditch the Sage engine already with it's constant tweaks, build (or use) an awesome engine that can really push the RTS genre ahead with awesome gameplay mechanics integrated with beautiful visuals. ]

Positive Effect:
[Breath of fresh air in the artstyle ]

Negative Effect:
[Some people won't love ditching the cartoony visuals? I don't know...]

I see what you mean,Caelistas,but I beg to differ with Red Alert 3.
Personally,I LIKE having the Red Alert series being cartoony.Since when are commando women in sports bras and time traveling scientists realistic?
Really,ever since Red Alert 2,the series has been cartoony.I like Red Alert 1 for it's seriousness,but RA2 I think was great.The light feeling of it allowed for humor and as much bizarreness as the creators want.When General Carvil dies in RA2,it's actually a little funny because of how random it is seeing a Crazy Ivan suddenly appearing in the doorway.

[=LEVIATHEN=]

With RA3, the cartoony graphics is just a symptom of the bigger issue, which is overall cheesy, wanna-be funny, boobs-centered style of the game. I never understood, why the thought people want to command schoolgirls, armored bears or ninjas instead of tanks and war-planes.

And Timm,I think you're forgetting that you can have ALL of those units in the Red Alert series.If you don't want to use the ninjas and bears and psycho commandos (which I think are awesome),then you don't have to.