Customizing starting escort units

[underlu]

Subject:
Customizing starting escort units

Description:
The starting units have been gone since CCG, because in history they aren’t very balanced, however, the “standard BOs” have gone dull for many years, bringing starting units back may give the early game a fresh breeze.

However they had better be subject to customization, and allow players to load their list before a match, then there will be a lot more strategies booming from early game.

This must base on the future game is not generally played with small maps like RA3 Infinite Isle, or it’ll just become a gamble, T1 units need to be able to counter all possible rusher.

For people who really don’t like this kind of thing, just give them an off-switch like old C&C did.

It’ll be fun as hell if harvesters, engineers etc. are allowed to be starting units. Just need some tweaking.


Positive Effect:
We won’t go to war with this lonely MCV again, which is unnatural.
To work with the starting forces, 10x more early game strategy will be developed.


Negative Effect:
Cost more
Balancing challenge

[stephanovich]

So I can only foresee 2 things TBH.

People will rush with them from the start and the win will be determined really early. Customization will do the same. One player can have a complete advantage over the other player from the get-go based on well............luck I guess and the game has a high chance of being decided early.

T1 units need to be able to counter all possible rusher

They do so already. If you think the starting units will help you against rushes think again. The enemy starts with them too so you are at the same level anyway.

Wouldn't mind it for unranked games though.

[underlu]

Yes kinda my point, to keep the fun for different people with diffrent preferences, if such system is affordable, adding it wouldn't be the worst idea.

On the other hand, if the new game has big maps covered by shroud like old C&Cs, people won't be rushing the enemy all the time like RA3 etc.

[Incia]

Nah, this was never a success... the one winning the 'starting unit battle' will have that 1 tank in red HP shooting at your lonely con yard until he wins, or at least damages it to red hp.

I always had starting units to 0 when I played the earlier games...
And with starting units I think my fastest win was something like 40 seconds.

[underlu]

If the map is big, and assume players don't spawn at predictable starting location (think starcraft), by the time you get to the enemy base, he already has more units waiting for you, and the defending side has better repair, so you can't just tell if you won.

And if the skill difference is that big, 40 seconds, 3minutes, it's the same.

The earlier games starting units are uncertain, so it stroke imbalance to the game, but with today's balancing, players can have a new level of competition. Yeah if you hate it you can always set to 0, but other people could use some extra units to work with, to spend the silent standard BO time, unless the next C&C is again like C&C3 and RA3 all about rushing at the first moment.

[Incia]

This also kills the early scout units, no point building 4 dogs/bears/burst drones if I already got 2 starting tsunami tanks... will just scout the whole map with these units while I do my normal BO.

[underlu]

True, but I think the future C&C will be more likely using these vehicles to scout the map instead of dog/bear/dragonfly...... After all, the RA3 pattern wasn't very pleasant, the enemy spent mere $200 and almost guaranteed to get full sight of your base, the super scouts was in RA3 because of the need of intel for super hard counter, shouldn't make it a standard issue for every other C&C.

And now there's fog of war, a few vehicles won't be enough to get intel for the whole map, also you probably won't send them all out to scout in case of enemy rushing, my point of early game strategy...

[CrazyGDIfan123`]

there was nothing wrong with the ra3 system

scouting is important and you -should- be able to know what the opponent is doing during early game... not having that vital info is game-crippling, regardless of whether the game has 'hard counters' or not

[underlu]

Scouting sure is important, but the RA3 scouts are very cheap, low tech, have enormous sight and relatively hard to kill, making the price of intel too low (even the GDI radar scan cost $500 and only available every 2 minutes), and players have no effective way too keep his operation secret to the enemy. In RA3 ok even I don't scout I might still know how's you base - there's only so few kinds of structures, however if the game is more complex and the base structures will reveal my whole strategy for this match, that easy scouting feels very unfair.

Vehicles on the other hand, according to past experience, are not that easy to get into the heart of one's base.

[CrazyGDIfan123`]

early game should be kept as transparent and visible as possible and scouting should be rewarded immensely to avoid cheesy luck builds that exploit early vulnerability... so its a good thing

this applies to any game