Intelligence Gathering to increase Combat Effectiveness

[RightHandOfNod]

Sorry, but that's just too simple.

I think the engineer captures the tech structure, then you select an enemy upgrade to deconstruct, which takes X time, as you say, but uploading the research would just be too easy, so after the timer runs down, the engineer comes out with the research, and you must then bring the engi back to base to make the counter.

If it dies in transit, another engineer can pick up the research crate, but all the enemy need do is to kill the engineer and destroy the research crate.

This system needs to be balanced and be a risk reward like thing, just uploading from the enemy structure is just too simple.

Sorry.

I suppose you have a point.

But defending a tech building (which will be deep in the enemy base if they have any sense), even for 30 seconds/a minute/whatever is not exactly going to be easy if they're trying to destroy it, since if you have enough forces in their base to easily do so, you're probably going to win before the tech comes into play anyway.

I did think about the idea of having to get the technology back to base manually before I posted, but I wasn't sure if that would make it too hard or not. I mean, making it too easy may make it overpowered, but making it too hard to pull off may just ensure that no-one bothers trying it.

[GeneralSGJist]

You do have a point....
ya, it's hard, my system as you say may be too hard, but your system may be too easy....

hmmmm

But in theory the upgrade that you could get would be well worth the effort, since you are countering an entire researched ability.

Theoretically if you had to return to base, you would have a transport unit for the engineer.

Bun also, in general, players should be using their own technology rather then relying on captured enemy technology.

Imo it is just like a perk, which helps, but should not be the deciding factor. The counter doesn't make the tech useless, just less effective.

Usually it doesn;t take more then a min to get across the map anyways.

[RightHandOfNod]

You do have a point....
ya, it's hard, my system as you say may be do hard, but your system may be too easy....

hmmmm

But in theiry the upgrade that you could get would be well worth the effort, since you are countering an entire researched ability.

Theoretically if you had to return to base, you would have a transport unit for the engineer.

Yes, I think you're right.

It would probably require extensive playtesting to ensure that it was correctly balanced between the ease/difficulty of acquiring the enemy technology/counter technology and the usefulness of said technology.

I definitely think that it's a good idea though.

[GeneralSGJist]

Thanks for your support,

I guess we can brainstorm for some counter upgrades, like a mirror coat vs lasers.

[You_Lose112]

Interesting idea...

I like it. Now if my enemy choses to carelessly place his tech structures he will pay dearly for it.

There may be some balancing and tecnical issues,but I think they could be worked out.

Although one thing,EVA for "Enemy engineer detected" would be a pain in the *** if you are trying to do this. Also,if your tech structure is infiltrated you should not be notified,instead a progress bar should appear below the structure, showing the analizing progress. Making you pay more attention to your base and possibly step up your macro game.

[RightHandOfNod]

Thanks for your support,

I guess we can brainstorm for some counter upgrades, like a mirror coat vs lasers.

No problem.

Faraday Caging to provide immunity (or at least reduced effect time) from EMP, perhaps?

[WeedWhacker92]

I'm sold on it, sounds just like the spy upgrades from RA2

All sounds well, but I don't really like the concept of having to escort the Engi back to your own base, it just seems like too much risk without much reward, especially since the time given (~30sec-45sec maybe?) to analize and reverse-engineer a technology would give your opponent way too much time to build up a counter attack, and any smart player will focus-fire down any transport or lone Engi, even with a convoy of units.

This is my take on it:

What would work better in my opinion is more of a monetary/time investment towards this type of stolen/reverse-engineered tech instead of a time/tactical investment, such as an option to construct an experimental tech structure (~2500 at 45sec credits lets say), unlocking an upgrade for engi's to allow reverse engineering (~1000 at 30sec maybe). THEN, send an engi (or even a specialized unit) to an enemy structure (tech center, radar, armory, power plant), the timer starts once captured (~30sec). Once finished, an upgrade relating to the structure infiltrated would be available to purchase (even more $ and time) at the experimental tech center.

Let me put this into perspective:

Myself playing as GDI vs. Nod (for example):

After setting up the basics, a PP Ref Rax and WF, I tech to Tier 2. Scouting out the enemy, I see that they teched towards stealth tech, and they keep harrasing my harvisters with stealthed attack bikes. I also notice that they have moved their MCV to create a forward base, leaving their Secret Shrine exposed at the back entrance to their base. Feeling devious, I quickly construct an experimental tech center and upgrade my engi's. Attacking on a few fronts, with multiple APC's I sneak one loaded with the upgraded Engi to their Secret Shrine and capture it. I hold off the attack long enough to have stealthing tech reverse engineered, and I check my options in the build queue for my experimental tech center. I now have the option of choosing to purchase advanced sensors, giving all stealth detecting units further sight range, allowing construction, from the experimental tech structure, an advanced sensor tower which will allow me to detect stealth in a large radius where placed and allow detection of enemy movement in the FOW in an even larger range, and a specalized scout UAV that can detect stealth and also cloak itself for short periods of time. (all just for example, all still needs to be balanced in game of course)


I'm only saying that time and money should be valued over the tactical approach originally stated as it would provide more accessability to players who choose to go this route instead of trying to build up an army. I do enjoy the idea of an escort party, don't get me wrong, but I just don't see that being a viable option in every single matchup (plus, I believe simplicity to be the key for new innovative concepts). Also, having a structure being build from the Command Center/MCV to house this option of teching an army, available around tier 2 perhaps, would allow this approach to be pursued in quicker, more competitive matches, rather than only being available in the late game.

[ConKid66]

I like this idea. Reminds me of RA2 (Spy in Tech Center = Mass spam of Yuri clones). One problem though. There would be nothing to get from GDI. Nod have stealth, Scrin have forcefields, but what do GDI have? If that could be worked out though, it would be awesome.

[Golan2781]

This sounds horribly complicated - capturing a structure is already quite difficult since APC-instacaps have been removed, but on top of that holding a structure right in the enemy base and then extracting a 1-HP-unit seems impossible in any non-orchestrated setup. Spending the time to create a second set of upgrades that are at best used once every hundredth match seems like a big waste of development resources.

This might work in SP in a specifically designed mission or when implemented for neutral tech structures (weapon bunkers, research stations, listening posts etc.) and a small set of upgrades/bonus units, but anything beyond that seems an ultra-low priority feature.

[GeneralSGJist]

Well, can you specify "Horribly Complicated"?

How ever the Counter upgrade is atained, be it uploaded , or transported by a unit, the point of such a secondary system is to make units more counterable in the long run.

If you mean balanceable, that remains to be seen,

If you mean just the variety if upgrades, then yes, sure, it will take some creativity to come up with such secondary upgrades, but the challenge is up to the devs, and if they has what it takes.

Such a system requires players to be more vigilant and more concerned with mixing units and their respective upgrades.

In the end it would allow a whole new level of play.

And in the future, engi's might be able to cap faster, idk, it's all relative.