Balancing Yuri's Revenge

[eatcow0]

I almost wouldn't bother with trying to patch yuri. It would be hard to enforce it and even though i rarely play yuri online, i rarely see people on it. If you use TibEd for modding maps, you can export the code to all your fav maps. Just use teh xcc and extract them. Just rename them like Bay of Pigs Modded (2-6) or something, make them unofficial in final alert 2, then zip them all up and party. I modded some of the 8 player maps so you can build 3 industrial plants etc, also made the AI harder on some :P

[Kane_J]

No No No! that just make the game harder, not more balanced.

PS: the factions were already balanced before you posted this. to me

[LegendWyn]

Don't overnerf Yuri...

Anyway, this game is made with fun in mind, not balance/competitive scenes, so some unit concept are quite broken. You might need to consider changing some other attribute of the units (such as decreasing it's blast radius, reducing effectiveness against infantries...) instead of tweaking only with Ore and HP.

[DarkMastero]

You shouldn't increase price or power for Battle Labs. It is already hard enough to go to late game tech.

I really don't think Grand Cannons need to be nurfed either. They already have so many drawbacks (min range, slow rate of rotation, requires power, no anti-air, low hit points).

Yuri is statistically the most overpowered faction. This is largely because of the Magnetron and Boomer. The Magnetron should require a Battle Lab. The fact that it can instantly kill miners by dropping them on impassable terrain makes them over powered by itself. Then when you factor in that it is middle game ranged siege unit makes it even worse. I agree the Boomer just needs a price and build time increase. $3000 is a bit to harsh though. Maybe just $2500.

I don't think requiring the Yuri Clone to be instructed to mind control would be a good idea since that would make them too hard to use.

If your going to increase the price of Psychic Towers I would recommend not having them lose control of enemy units to far away since that may make them underpowered.

Slave Miner should have it's HP lowered. It is much more difficult to harass them then it is War Miners or Chrono Miners.

The Bio Reactor should have ether it's initial power lowers or it's bonus power per infantry lowered, or have it's price and built time increased. A full Bio Reactor can power a Barracks, War Factory, Psychic Radar, Battle Lab, and Genetic Mutator. (The fact that the Slave Miner requires no power gives Yuri an edge also.) A Bio Reactor costs only $600 and Yuri's cheapest infantry, the Initiate, costs $200 each. So for $1600 Yuri gets all that power and without having to tie up his Construction Yard's queue with a second power structure. And that's if he doesn't use mind controlled enemy infantry (or civilians on some maps).

Chaos Drone's effect should go back to the way it was (affected units attack whatever is closest). Having them attack only enemies make it to easy to gas them and run by.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Desolator. Iraq was the most unbalanced country in RA2 and second most unbalanced in YR (after Yuri). Desolators should defiantly require a Battle Lab.

I also agree Destroyers need a buff. That fact that Allied players fall back on Dolphins is clear proof of this. Making the Osprey untraceable would help since their main fault is they can't stand up to a mix of Typhoons and Sea Scorpions. A more realistic solution would be to have them able to out range Sea Scorpions.

Increasing the V3 Rocket's speed, longer range for Telsa Troopers and Terrorist not damaging friendly units is be a good idea.

Demolition Trucks and SEALs should no longer give an announcement when created as they only work when the opponent doesn't see them. It adds value to scouting.

Chrono Legionnaire should have their price reduced to about $1500. As it stands they really arn't work making over Rocketeers and Grizzelys.

I don't see any reason to nurf Battle Fortresses. Once you take into consideration the costs of both it and the infantry to load into them they are expensive.

For the Tank Destroyer you should just give it greater range and make it do splash damage.

Robot Tanks should deal more damage vs vehicles and buildings so they can fight off Masterminds and Psychic Towers easier.

[Wlof25]

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I dont find Desolator too overpowered,true he can melt infantry and use are of effect radiation but that radiation is two sided sword can effect your units too.
Desolator cant attack buildings and tanks (have very low damage on tanks,basically make him useless) unless he deploy.

I think demolition trucks need announcement because one of those can destroy half of your base if get through and if you are not prepared and warned.
Seals just need some serious nerfing,they are like mini commando.
Battle fortress needs some nerfing crushing over miners and Apocalypse Tank is not acceptable.

[DarkMastero]

The Desolator's deploy effect is what makes them OP. When two of them deploy they can destroy almost any vehicle in seconds. Coupled with the absurd range of the effect (they even out-range Prism Tanks) and the fact that Terror Drones are immune to this effect making it possible to protect the Desolator against vehicles. Thanks the the Desolator's high HP it takes two hits from a Harrier to take it out making it difficult to beat them with air either.

The Demolition Truck only works if it takes your opponent by surprise. It's low HP and the fact that it self-destructs when destroyed makes it difficult to defend. Any Allied player will just bomb it with Harriers. And it's easy to just rush a tank at it destroying it and crippling whatever units the enemy was trying to guard it with. The Demolition Truck will only destroy War Factories and Ore Refineries if it explodes next to them. Otherwise it only damages them.

NAVY Seals are also easy to stop. Flank Tracks, IFVs with GI's loaded, and Gattling Tanks take them out in seconds on land as Sea Scorpion and Dolphins do on water. They also can't get past most base defenses. And removing the warnings adds value to scouting. The warning should only be used for units they are both difficult to stop and do heavy damage fast (Kirov Airship, Boomers, and Floating Discs).

Battle Fortresses are tier 3 units so it is okay for them to kill miners easily since they are suppose to be game enders. To be honest they are so slow you really can't count on their crushing ability much. Sure you may catch a miner off guard and squish it but most vehicles will just pull back. A Battle Fortress costs $2000 and Guardian GI costs $400 each and a NAVY Seal costs $1000. So for a Battle Fortress loaded with four Guardian GI and one Navy Seal would cost $4600. On contrast an Apocalypse Tank costs only $1750.

[Wlof25]

The Desolator's deploy effect is what makes them OP. When two of them deploy they can destroy almost any vehicle in seconds. Coupled with the absurd range of the effect (they even out-range Prism Tanks) and the fact that Terror Drones are immune to this effect making it possible to protect the Desolator against vehicles. Thanks the the Desolator's high HP it takes two hits from a Harrier to take it out making it difficult to beat them with air either.

The Demolition Truck only works if it takes your opponent by surprise. It's low HP and the fact that it self-destructs when destroyed makes it difficult to defend. Any Allied player will just bomb it with Harriers. And it's easy to just rush a tank at it destroying it and crippling whatever units the enemy was trying to guard it with. The Demolition Truck will only destroy War Factories and Ore Refineries if it explodes next to them. Otherwise it only damages them.

NAVY Seals are also easy to stop. Flank Tracks, IFVs with GI's loaded, and Gattling Tanks take them out in seconds on land as Sea Scorpion and Dolphins do on water. They also can't get past most base defenses. And removing the warnings adds value to scouting. The warning should only be used for units they are both difficult to stop and do heavy damage fast (Kirov Airship, Boomers, and Floating Discs).

Battle Fortresses are tier 3 units so it is okay for them to kill miners easily since they are suppose to be game enders. To be honest they are so slow you really can't count on their crushing ability much. Sure you may catch a miner off guard and squish it but most vehicles will just pull back. A Battle Fortress costs $2000 and Guardian GI costs $400 each and a NAVY Seal costs $1000. So for a Battle Fortress loaded with four Guardian GI and one Navy Seal would cost $4600. On contrast an Apocalypse Tank costs only $1750.

I dont agree.
Only one Harrier is enough for one Desolator.
Yes,their range can out range prism tanks but still prisms can kill them.
Then it is not true that they destroy almost any vehicle in seconds,Prism tank have low HP and "small" armor and it can kill Desolator and still live with 50% of HP,then for lvl1 tanks,Desolator needs to deploy like 2-3 times,on Apocalypse over 5 times.
I checked right now in game and 3 Flak Trucks can kill 3 deployed Desolator.
They have their own flaws,radiation can damage their own units,lame damage against tank and no attack on buildings...

yes it is true that Demo Truck have low HP but still if you get him into enemy base and destroy not just War Factories and Ore Refineries...also Power Plants,Barracks,Battle Labs,Radars....so one unit in value of 1500$ have potential to do damage in value over 5000$ and not just that you cripple your enemy for time to replace those buildings.
What about Iron Curtain? 4 of them can destroy everything except "concrete" armor buildings (CY,Superweapon)
And 5 of them can destroy your whole base.....I find that worth of warring.
Then I dont know for rest of players but I use them in combination with Howe Craft....4 Demo trucks can be load there and HC is amphibious and have nice HP and boom.

Seals....it is just strange to me how you dont find them OP...
1000$ soldier who put almost all infantry to shame....with 1000$ you can slaughter soldiers,destroy any building in a blink of an eye if come close,same for ships....only weakness are tanks....
No,those examples are not easy,you just give me list of anti infantry tanks.
Only none command unit who can beat them barely are Desolators (with last red square of HP) and only reason why Dolphins can stop them is it because they have tank armor.

It is true that Battle Fortresses are more expensive with infantry but that is why it is so powerful.
if you destroy them,all infantry get out with 100% HP and if you put sniper or seal inside,infantry can say bye bye.
If you put Chrono Legionnaire inside,he can "freeze" anything what is close to him.....and still can move as I remember but it cant move out of Chrono Legionnaire range,that will stop it...
Battle Fortresses with Guardian GI's have superior range then Prisms tower and Tesla coil range as I remember correctly and can move and shoot at the same time,what Apocalypse cant.
Then that crushing part...Miners are protected from most physical damage,radiation and even psionics and then come unit and take a dump on all of that and just crush over them...
It is ok to me to crush walls and other tanks but Apocalypse and Miners not.

[DarkMastero]

Just to show the statistics here is the RA2 ladder page:
http://xwis.net/ra2/

and the Yuri's Revenge ladder page:
http://xwis.net/yr/

As you can see it is exceptionally rare for anyone to play any Soviet faction other then Iraq in competitive games. Naturally Yuri's faction is also high on the list (in-spite of all the "no Yuri" rules in games). America appears somewhat high also (for early Paradrop rush tactics). Here is a breakdown for this month's top player country picks:
Red Alert 2-
Iraq: 481
America: 161
Russia: 2
France: 2
Korea: 1
Libya: 0
Cuba: 0
Germany: 0
Britian: 0


Yuri's Revenge-
Iraq: 160
Yuri: 79
America: 2
France: 1
Germany: 1
Libya: 0
Cuba: 0
Russia: 0
Korea: 0
Britian: 0

Why do you think the top players like to pick Iraq so much? They only have one unit the other Soviet factions don't have.

[Wlof25]

Just to show the statistics here is the RA2 ladder page:
http://xwis.net/ra2/

and the Yuri's Revenge ladder page:
http://xwis.net/yr/

As you can see it is exceptionally rare for anyone to play any Soviet faction other then Iraq in competitive games. Naturally Yuri's faction is also high on the list (in-spite of all the "no Yuri" rules in games). America appears somewhat high also (for early Paradrop rush tactics). Here is a breakdown for this month's top player country picks:
Red Alert 2-
Iraq: 481
America: 161
Russia: 2
France: 2
Korea: 1
Libya: 0
Cuba: 0
Germany: 0
Britian: 0


Yuri's Revenge-
Iraq: 160
Yuri: 79
America: 2
France: 1
Germany: 1
Libya: 0
Cuba: 0
Russia: 0
Korea: 0
Britian: 0

Why do you think the top players like to pick Iraq so much? They only have one unit the other Soviet factions don't have.

RA2 is broken in balance in so many ways for example in competitive games as I know who play with Soviets and Allies always mass rhino (for soviet) and grizzly (for allies).
That can be just one example how can Desolator can be abused in all ready abused tactics of spamming tanks.
I dont see any issue there,game balance is broken,players abuse that and use tactics (unit (Desolator)) good with that abuse.
If navy seal could be good against tank,everybody will abuse them too in tank spam battles.