Control Wheel - New interface feature to increase unit control

[MILINTarctrooper]

By coding.



By testing them, in alpha and beta.



Which games tried to use such system? Titles.

And if it flops in non-console games, then it works in console games, thus it's a matter of implementation and not the system itself.

If, of course, it was used somewhere else, since I don't have an idea what games are you talking about.



It makes less of a point in such system since it was designed to keep the player away from being distracted by jumping from frontline to the base. If you have the base along with you, much of it's use is left out. But it still greatly increases the speed of issuing orders.



You don't get it, don't you?

- You rarely get more sophisticated orders in RTS games. Where did you see an "escort" button last time? And how did it work?
- It requires a ton of clicking. Compare setting a patrol order by standard (setting up the beacons, selecting aircraft, selecting the order. Not to mention you get problems with unit AI since they can return to base after depleting ammo and not return to the patrol, or stay on patrol after depleting ammo etc.. Also, you need to run around looking for units on patrol if you want them used somewhere else. If you use control groups, you have only 10, and you need to memorise which group controls which units), and setting up the order with my system (one click. cancelling - two clicks).
- The orders you can issue by keyboard + mouse have far less possibilities than the ones I proposed, and they require a lot of shortcuts to be memorised.

Now, could we use a new system?



Also possible, but it was used as such, to an extent, in BFME series.

I think it would be best with the sidebar, which allows you to control production in the base without looking at it. Combined with my idea, you could control the base and units in it (aicraft and artillery) without looking at it, with all attention at the frontline.

1) Order based systems...only should be used in TBS games...Turn Based Strategy.
The only similar idea would be the RTT Men of War...but even then that system is highly problematic...and I have played that system over.
Now, if it was setting how a unit faces, operates, and functions that is not an issue...but still requires player control.
Any Free-Move orders...tend to get your forces killed off rapidly in game. I have played both Men of War, and Axis and Allies which both have such orders...they only work with recon units...but those are disposable, and if your in a game where you win and lose by points of units killed...that is a big no-no.

2) Orders...Men of War, Axis and Allies both use this and it tends to be less than useful...except maybe having hold fire, because the AT gun coding is a little squirrely and they jump the gun all the time.

3) Order Balancing: Okay give me any number of orders...and I can tell you that depending on tech, unit, terrain, upgrades it can be exploited. Lets say you have a scout unit that has a radar scrambler (ergo Venom of CnC3.) And I tell it to run around your base out of range of any defenses, but it activates its scrambler every 30s. How are you going to catch that unit...because it will avoid your attempts to kill it, and it constantly aggrivates your use of a radar map.

Orders should only cover:
Defend Ground- defend an area from possible attack. [Genrals concept.]
Patrol- lay down a patrol pattern with waypoints, and the unit will move about and engage enemies within its LOS or detected by support units line of sight within their patrol zone.
Attack Ground/Force Fire into the fog of war...[not shroud] and possibly hit a target...or shift your units attention to an immediate threat.
Escort/Follow- (CTRL-E)...in RA1...units will protect a unit from attack by moving in front of or behind a unit...and will attack any threats to that unit. Follow will order units to follow behind another unit and will convoy to a destination following one another. [Or can be ordered to follow an enemy unit within their line of sight home!-Age of Empires II allows your units to do that!]
Formations: (CTRL-F) in Generals...order how a group of units will move or operate.
Stance: Infantry...Men of War uses this alot...order infantry to go prone, crouch, or stand. Act of War uses it for prone camoflage of units.
Movement Orders: Forward or Back...Attack Move, Move.
Attack Stance: Aggressive Free Move (Search and Destroy-units seek out the enemy and attack), Aggressive if attacked or moved towards an attack zone all targets are attacked, or the units will immediately move into attack range once a unit enters LOS, Retaliation- units only attack if fired upon, Hold Ground units do not move to retaliate, but instead wait for an enemy to move within weapons range. Hold Fire, units will not fire even if fired upon...usually best used for games where ambush is involved or severe micromanagement.

That is probably all you need...either that or players have lost the old school thought process of thinking out the flow and ebb of battle. Pre-sorted orders in a game similar to RA3 is asking for a match lasting at minimum 3 minutes. No there has to be a human in the loop, so there is a psychological and human error warfare ratio involved. [How much more orders do you need?]

3) In CnC3 most air units didn't require a patrol system...you just clicked a move order...and the units would consistently fly back to that zone to engage after dropping their bombs or missiles. [ergo move-defend ground all in one click.]

4) Distracted from the frontline? CnC has one of the most ridiculously fast reaction time systems in all the game world. hotkey H straight back your main base, space bar to the site of any conflict on the map! Two buttons...and you can do that all day...and win! Or just use the minimap...and click in there...and jump anywhere within a flash. Also the sidebar/bottombar makes it easy to que up reinforcements...then hit E or W and almost every single unit will move with one click!

5) No RTS has sophisticated orders, why? Look at history, any General who uses sophisticated orders loses. In RTT, TBS, RTS...all Strategy and Tactics based games...you are the commander you are the man with the plan. You lead...not simply click and go on your merry way. Generals and Commanders lead...CnC is Command and Conquer, not Click and Celebrate. You need to factor in terrain, territory, weather, your weapons, and your opponents mindset.
I have played many games where I would be at a total inferior position and force, but would carry the day by showing the other players how I had figured them out. This is not a simulation like Super Power simulation game...which awful both graphics and strategy wise. Although you could play anywhere in the world...and the terrain would exactly like it is viewed from space. This order system is for non-RTS players. CnC players need to either out-think or out play their opponents...not click done.

6) I think personally there is a lot of possibilities with the mouse and keyboard, it just takes time...heck even with the mouse there are tons of possibilities!

Your idea would work as a new declutter system...that can be expanded and contracted to increase view screen size in game, but only for the sidebar/bottom bar nothing more. The order system is not CnC, and probably will not implemented for a fact. It takes too much time to code everything, the AI and pathing has to be perfectly coded. It has a domino effect on a units and gameplay...and players will complain. Much like with CnC3 and RA3 series with "Perfect Build Ques", there will be controversy over every single order system...and claims over "Perfect Orders" that instant win a game. It is better to let a player make the order, and make a mistake...hence why RTS, TBS, and RTT tend to be more engrossing when there is more give and take in a game.

[Borreh]

...

I disagree.

And I don't know where even to begin.

I'll just go sleep.

[Borreh]

Bump!

.. Just thought it won't be a bad idea to necro my old thread to get more recognition, since it sank to the bottom way too early and I'd love some more discussion on this idea. I really like it.

[Kane_J]

Can you please make it shorter? I got a headache when I finished reading your post.

[Borreh]

Can you please make it shorter? I got a headache when I finished reading your post.

Sorry but this is the shortest I could get.

Besides, the text has a lot of pointed out phrases and spaces.

..and you already have read it if you got a headache from finishing the read, didn't you? I'd love a comment.

[barmellibovsky]

Good Idea

[A51UK]

Bad idea. I think it would make the game harder to control them the system we are using now.

[Borreh]

It's impossible since it's optional. You're not forced to do anything.

Besides, those are shortcuts to pre-existing order lines. For example: Instead of clicking units -> load to transport -> select transport -> give transport the desired unload location -> unload transported units, you would, while having the desired units selected, tell them where to be transported, and the rest would happen automaticaly. It's literaly packing 5 different commands into one.

It may sound complicated when explained in detail, but If anything, it's streamlining.

[Voiru]

I just posted a suggestion that would allow you to research (or develop by whatever means if a feature like that exists anyway) combat algorithms that would make your troops perform better when you can't put attention to them.

I think these features could be in fact merged, yours a brilliant for sure.

You could "research" your command wheel if you think you need it (again, some vets probably can handle without) and on the other hand, you might focus on something else. On early stages of a game, it's not so important, but if the game is prolonged, it might just become what you'll need.

Best idea would be to have SoTS type of thing going on. In that game, each race has their own space drive system which affects their movement and essentially everything else. One race moves slowly towards unknown lands but establishes a wide network in their occupied lands where they can move instantly anywhere. Makes their defense hard but offense is bit akward if you don't get to sneak in and put a gate in enemy worlds.

Meanwhile another race uses completely different system where they first build a path to somewhere with a special ship, which they can then use to access very quickly to the other place. But, it might collapse at any point and your ships in it will be destroyed. Great for offense but not too significant else-wise.

C&C could do that sort of thing. Instead of movement changing, the way you command your units would change. One faction has the access to such wheel that you suggest, another one might require more micro management, another one uses very large unit masses but micro-management is of no help for them.

[oompah]

I love ideas like these; some of the best ideas ever implemented were shot down initially but now are staples in the gaming world.

I am not smart enough to know what is good or bad regarding game design but it you come up with some ideas that achieve the following I say test them out

#1 allow more attention to be devoted to the core gameplay - in c&c that would be tank battles
#2 does not dumb down the nuance of the game too much
#3 is optional and not ideal. Meaning it's a shortcut to doing a manual action but the manual action is always more precise