Upgradable walls

[R315r4z0r]

I realize there is already a walls thread, but this idea is a little different so I thought it would be better to give it its own thread.

Subject:
An upgrade system for walls.

Description:
There should be 4 types of walls in the game.

When you first start out, you should be given the first available type of wall in the game: The sandbag. After researching the upgrade, you can purchase an upgrade for selected walls on the map and upgrade them into fences. Then you should be able to upgrade them again into concrete walls. And finally, the last upgrade should be steel walls (something new to C&C). In addition, I believe steel walls should have a TS like component in that you can build things onto the walls (like garrisons for infantry).

-Upgrading walls should not be global. After researching an upgrade, the walls you've made should not change automatically. You should have to choose which walls in your base to purchase an upgrade for(using a grouping selection method). That way you can keep T1 walls in some spots where you don't want your heavier T2, 3 or 4 walls.
-It should cost money to upgrade IN ADDITION to the money you paid researching the technology.

Wall tier rundown.
Tier 1: Sandbags ($10 each) - can fire over, block infantry wayfinding, easy to destroy. All vehicles can run over.

Tier 2: Chain link fence ($20 each / $15 to upgrade from T1) - can fire through, block infantry wayfinding, blocks light vehicle wayfinding, easy to destroy. Heavy vehicles can run over.

Tier 3: Concrete wall ($100 each / $75 to upgrade from T2) - blocks all passing fire, blocks all ground unit wayfinding, takes a little effort to destroy. Heavy T3 tanks can run through them when weakened.

Tier 4: Steel wall ($500 each / $375 to upgrade from T3) - blocks all passing fire, blocks all ground unit wayfinding, very hard to destroy, cannot be run over, garrisons can be mounted on them.


Positive Effect:
-Creating sandbags is cheap, fast and easy.
-Upgrade system makes retrofitting your base easy.
-Benefits you if you want a cheap way to quickly obstruct an enemy's approach but also allows you to spend some money really fortifying a structure or position if you so desired.

Negative Effect:
-"Pro" players tend to shy away from walls because they believe they slow down the game. A balance would need to be made that make walls cheap, fast and easy to create so that they don't hinder your base building or unit construction but later allow you to quickly throw some money at it to upgrade them on the fly.
-Prices might need to be rebalanced.

[AdmiralQ]

might work but I like concrete at beginning

[Nervmich]

Better make some anti-tank-barriers

I mean these

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...20110414012519

However i have no idea how you want to upgrade them with "replacing". This may look very sad.
I can imagine a wire on a sandbag. And i can imagine a wire on a strong wall.
But replace sandbags with strong walls ? Then better build it twice. So behind the sandbags there comes the strong wall.

Only upgrade i can imagine is a "steel wall" However in most "strong walls there is already steel used inside to make the wall strong enough.

Anyway I think defense lines shall not be upgraded one about the other and replaced. But it shall be lines. Frist line mines, second line anti-tank-barrier, third line walls, fourth line behind it is the bunker. Thats how it works in reality. And thats the only way not to make it look ridiculous.

I agree with your row however.

What i also dont agree with is the price. I think its toooo high. 40 Sandbags to cover one side = 1600 $ ? Well if you could place at least 8 at once for 10 $ it would make sense. (My price is maybe tooo low)

So in a whole:

Upgrade walls: Yes
Upgrade while replacing: Looks like sh.it So NO


Plus: I think if sandbags really are cheap there should be an option for enemy infantry to blow them up.
Smth like these
4:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI1Lm7Ae85k
Of course it would cost enemies infantry 10 seconds or smth like this and has to be upgraded like flashbangs.

[R315r4z0r]

What do you mean "upgrade while replacing?" Why is it a bad idea to be able to change walls that are already on the map and upgrade them into something better? There is a reason why I said upgrading walls isn't a global change. Meaning, once you research the next upgrade, your old walls WONT automatically change. You have to select them and spend money upgrading them.

That way you don't have to change your sandbags into fences if you don't want to... even if you want to put fences somewhere else in your base.

As for the price, I think you're math is a little off... 40 sandbags would be $400. Where did you get $1600 from? 1 sandbag = $10, so 10x40=400

[sgfan206]

Aww, come on! Having walls is not just enough? Wanna make them really good and upgradeable?

I say - before upgrading walls, talk about gates. The best wall is useless if the enemy can just avoid it.

For me, I'm satisfied with normal walls.

[R315r4z0r]

But the thing with normal walls is that they tend to be too much of a pain to create in faster games without much benefit. They drain money and divert time you could be using to create units. That's why I suggested bringing back the sandbag (which is cheap, fast, and easy to place on the map without a moment's notice) and then allowing you to just go by later and upgrade it if you needed the defense.

The goal is to make building a wall useful and extremely cost efficient early on so that people don't ignore them entirely. Then, allow you to go and spend money on it later if you so desired by using the psychological method of a player saying "well, it's already on the map so..." and then spending a quick $75 to increase its effectiveness.

[sgfan206]

Play Tiberium Essence.

Build walls.

And don't tell me ever again that they are useless.

One wall hub costs 100 $. Each further segment costs 20 $. Try it. Build your defence behind the wall.
These walls are 1st very hard armored, and 2nd they can be repaired and 3rd they can be easily replaced at low cost.
If you sell them you get 50 % of its price back. Unless it is damaged.

They are the PERFECT walls! Better than TS. Better than RA. Better than AoE. Better than ... everything.
Because the outpost ground-control is increased much more, they are really profitable to build.
Just try it.

[GeneralSGJist]

Support OP.
but 2 thigns to consider:
1. faction diversity

2, heights allowing shooting over of walls.....

[sgfan206]

About 2. ,

very difficult to arrange that. AFAIK, the enviroment of a map doesn't affect the firepower or accuracy at all.

About 1. ,

faction diversity (design or actual effects?) is already existing in TE - and I have to add: Those walls are even in the vanilla game, however not used ...

[Ferret840]

I have to say I agree with most of this. The things I would change is the price of the research, should be a bit higher, especially for steel.
Perhaps:
Fence: $100 Research
Concrete: $500 Research
Steel: $1000 Research
I think these prices are a bit more reasonable.
Also, there should be perhaps a $250 (Dunno on price) Gate that works with all but sandbag. Theres some changes to the properties I'd change.
Infantry should also be able to climb over the sandbags, but really slowly and they can't fire cause they're walking carefully.
The fences would block infantry, but all vehicles can run it over, with light vehicles maybe slowed or something
The concrete and steel fences are fine with me though.

But again, that's just my opinion