What gameplay changes you want to see in Generals 2?

[IonorRea]

Updated: 25.2.2012
I gathered through experimentating and approval in Generals 2 forum threads most wanted ideas recyclated from older games or created by me and other users.

Core gameplay additions

1.1 Bigger gameplay role for civilians in game - civilians in older Generals were no more than addition to map for looking more alive, but there are many voices from community telling that this have to change. So why don't give civilians opinion on what you do and interact with your behaviour?
If you for example make some sidequests with food convoys or help repairing infrastructure although you capture it (hospitals, gas stations etc.) you get positive feedback from civilians, but when you destroy infrastructure captured by enemy instead of recapturing or you killing civilians due collateral damage during fights you get negative feedback and civilians start fight agains you. In EU campain you can possibly for killing high amount of civilians loose rank (instead of mission failed during campain). For sure this can enchance SP, as for MP at least some modes could be available as helping civilians between rushes in classic MP is less plausible.

Suggestions:
-Create something like opinion meter from -5 to +5 and with each change bring something new into game for example:
+1 slow healing in civilian buildings (like civilians help your troops)
+2 molotov from empty buildings somethimes target your enemy
+3 recruiting or free flow of stealthed (as fight in own enviroment) freedom fighters with booby traps and molotovs available from bomb shelters and metro stations (possible concentration of civilians during war).
+4 recruiting spies with ability to infiltrate enemy structures for different bonuses.
+5 recruiting Medics from hospitals and Peacekeepers from police stations with shotgun, shield and teargas able make building inhabitable and forcing occupants leave building. So with wide approval of your faction by civilians state institutions are with you in fight (this can be standart opinion for EU fighting in Europe of course without freedom fighters until you don't do something stupid)

Some effects of negative opinion can include:
-Molotov from empty building somethimes target your troops.
-Freedom fighters sabotaging your base.
-Angry mobs starts creating in city and attacking your units.
-Suicide car attacks and barricades from buses that require Dozer or tank to crush etc.

This ideas evolving in thread:
http://www.commandandconquer.com/for...rt-of-gameplay


1.2 Replay Idea - jump into the game - simple as it sound is ability to jump into replay at any moment and start play instead of just watching game with human player agains computer and try "what if" scenario potencialy very powerful tool to experience maximum joy from exploring possibilities. This way can player also much faster learn what work and what didn't and test new strategies without need to repeat new game and building base again.

Pros & Cons
+Greatly increase learning curve and practicising new tactics.
+Possibly useful feature for modding and development.
-Spoil AI a lot faster, so players will made jokes on Hard AI after game release few days sooner and also skirmish beign boring faster.
-Possible requirement for many programing hours to work correctly and keep replay file size at minimum.

This idea evolved in thread:
http://www.commandandconquer.com/for...d-order-for-AI.

Game battle mechanics & UI

2.1 Advanced vehicle damage model - in Generals actualy don't matter if you hit tank from front, back or top, but in urban or mountain enviroment are top attacks tank everyday bread. Why don't encourage player to use brain more with better bonuses for non frontal attacks?

Suggestions:
-This is most useful agains heavy armour as light vehicles are fragile from start they have to be without further degrading of survivability.
-Current tanks have stronger top armour then back armour due fact that top attacks are with modern weapons and in urban warfare harder to prevent. This can be used in game too as flanking will be more dificult than put soldier into building or use artilery/aircraft so game will be adequately rewarding player for task difficulty.

Pros & Cons
+Keeps rule easy to learn, hard to master.
+If putted only on heavy armoured vehicles no big ballance issues.
+Allow better optimalise damage of artilery and aircraft agains armoured stuff without need for complex armour tables like in Generals ZH.
+Allow use of laser lock ability that use top attack path for missile instead of double rate of fire which look unatural and made active defense on vehicles sometimes useless or luck dependent due active defense time between scaning for new projectiles.
-It can produce unpredicted OP advantage for some high trajectory weapons on some heavily urbanised maps.

2.2 Vehicle reverse movement - in C&C 3 introduced very useful addition for organised withdrawal have succes in use with big vehicle groups like tanks. This is defining addition if advanced damage model have to be integrated in game. As it can be seen in trailer it's maybe useless to writing this idea but even Generals 1 changed drasticaly from what was seen in first pictures so i rater write it.

Suggestions:
-Only some vehicles have to be able ride with same forward and reverse speed otherwise will be ambushes, deceptions and traps easy counterable with many hitpoints in units of heavy hitter faction or high speed and response times of GLA thus negating usefulness of advanced stragegy thinking in game. This can result into big tank spamming like in C&C3 where was with high succes applied scouting with force of fast responding tanks capable of quick retreats.

-Currently is AFAIK only one 4 generation tank in service (japanese Type 10) with variable transmission capable same forward and backward speed. Variable transmission can be given for EU tank to have some advantage and not beign only reskinned Medium/Crusader tank.

Pros & Cons
+Better micro control over units.
+Increased chance to survive retreat from unfavorable position if directional armour or his more sophisticated variant will be implemented. This can be crucial in urban warfare.
-For someone longer games due increased survivability and strange looking behaviour of backward moving units in some cases.

2.3 Elite & Heroic troops as instructors in barracks - training veteran troops through sending your promoted troops (elite or heroic) into Barracks to become instructors like in Emperor Battle for Dune.

Suggestions:
-Incrase time of training needed to produce more experienced troops by about 20% (from 5 to 6 seconds in case of Rebel) for keeping balance.
-Allow choose specific unit instructor to leave barracks if higher speed of training or defending Barracks will be required.
-Training of infantry in Barracks haven't to surpass veteran status otherwise can be game in some MP combinations unbalanced.

Pros & Cons
+Add more value for basic infantry in later parts of game
+More rewarding game experience from keeping your troops alive

2.4 Experience for damage system - in Generals was used experience for killing blow system which have some issues. For first in co-op games were many cases when for examaple player supporting his Overlords controling ally with Rocket buggies don't promote at all due fact that experience system rewarding for killing blow allow player with Overlords timing his attacks such way that he always get killing blow and thus take all experience from enemy destruction.
Also possibility to criticaly damage for example Overlord by Comanches and then fininshing him with Humvee allow for unaturaly fast selective unit promoting which in some cases produced unwanted balance issues.
In experience system introduced in C&C3 where units get experience not for killing blows but equaly proporcional to produced damage to enemy, non of situations described before cannot happen.
Another advantage of this system is that if advanced damage model for tanks will be properly used then units can get experience quicker by using proper micro to maneuver around enemy.

Suggestions:
-With combination of advanced damage model for vehicles can provide experience for damage system more satisfiing gameplay due system rewarding also player and his units with faster experience gain if controled properly. If flanking attacks have to be possible i suggest decrease reverse speed for most vehicles on about 50% so flanking attacks will be unlike C&C3 with high reverse speeds for vehicles obtainable even agains good players that more likely accept higher damage to his units if speed reduction in reverse will be so substancial.

Pros & Cons
+Remove selective promoting of low survivable units agains his natural counters spoil which plagued experience for killing blow system (Humvees quickly promoting on nearly dead Overlords etc.).
+Allow for more fair experience sharing in co-op games.
-Take away from player such detailed control over units promoting as in old experience system.

2.5 Forbidden areas selector - allow player to select areas which supply and raid units automaticaly evade if not directly directed by player to go or gather inside this zone.
So if for example your base is on down part of map, enemy have base in middle and supply are in upper part your gathering units due enemy base selected as forbidden automaticly evade enemy base which prevent from uneccesery loses and allow long range supply gathering impossible in many cases in old Generals without making waypoints for every supply trip. This can also releave player in executing simultaneous attack from multiple directions and can also work great for integrating into AI for scripting advanced strategy behaviours.

Suggestions:
-Creating forbidden area by player can be similar with creating circle object in graphics editors, first you select middle point, then with second point define radius. Circle is ideal as represent weapons range on base defense etc.
-Forbidden area have to be visible by player only by marked middle point to not interfere much, if pointed by cursor whole circle radius will show.
-By pointing on middle point and pushing delete button, forbidden area will be erased.

Pros & Cons
+Less frustration and better managment of units resulting in decreased fatigue from high concentration and overclicking.
+Chance to improve with this feature AI that will be less dependent on predefined paths and will be able maneuver with groups more effectively thus reducing uneccecery losses.

This ideas evolved in threads:
http://www.commandandconquer.com/for...-in-Generals-2
http://www.commandandconquer.com/for...ing-Generals-2

2.6 Double clicking for selecting all buildings of same type and ability to group buildings - simple feature but with pretty important results in using buildings abilities and concentrating base defenses on one strong target like Overlord.

Pros & Cons
+Better power and base defense managment.
-Make base siege more problematic and power sabotages easier to counter for factions with overcharge or power plant upgrade ability.

This idea evolved in thread:
http://www.commandandconquer.com/for...ngs-in-a-group

2.7 Selective EVA warnings - give user choice which warnings want active and which not in settings / audio and add choice to change values for activation in advanced settings. Every player is diffennt so it makes sense as many are anoyed with some warnings and some wanted warning on something that missing. This have to be done with caution to don't break balance for example with easy trackable commandos etc.

Pros & Cons
+Chance to better match interface with player personal requirements.
-Possible balance issues if not done properly.

This idea evolved in thread:
http://www.commandandconquer.com/for...-Eva-warnnings

Game economics & UI

3.1 Worker+tunnel gathering combo - allow GLA gather on long range with automatic worker pathfinding to nearest depo with use of tunels in mind so you will be able get resources from end of map just by creating tunel near by. If this have to be balanced worker must have in tunel some speed, alhough higher then classic walking no instant teleport otherwise will be GLA overpowered as hell.
Transporting large amount of supply through tunels was widely used for example by Vietcong during Vietnam war so already used with guerrila forces.

3.2 Worker+Technical combo - second possibility for GLA long range gathering is to allow with Technical ability and one worker convert Technical into smaller but faster supply truck that in case of need can be again turned into battle vehicle or maybe do both so for example harass enemy economy load trucks from enemy supply and get back to home base with supply. If worker gather 75$ then Technical have to take something between 150-200$ so still less than China Supply truck, but again faster so on long range it can be gamesaver for GLA.

3.3 Some thoughts about second stage economy to be possibly used

-Allow send supply drops in form of general power or redirecting it from your supply drop zone to enywhere on map, so you can with secondary or general power supply help your ally. This enchance teamplay but also leave enemy chance to shoot down plane or helicopter (dependent on faction) to reach your ally with supply.

-If there have to be hackers again no build limit for internet centers if other sides will not have limit on money producing buildings as well.

-Possible chance to limit number of buildable second stage economy buildings by your rank, five star general propably gets bigger budget then one star in real too. This can be added into standart rules or as optional choice into MP (similar to SW choice or starting money choice in custom game).

-There can be for GLA unlocked Cash Bounty for killing enemy after building Black Markets instead of buyng this ability for general points.
If you have one Black Market you get 2% and max. 20% if you have 10 Black Markets which have to be maximum buildable number to prevent changing Generals into production/spamming mess that require no strategic thinking if there will be plausible to implement this idea.
It's reasonable for me as you must have Black Markets to be able gathered Cash bounty for enemy kills to customers wanted death of infidels.

There can be rebuildable derricks after total destruction.
Make place where derrick stand before easy memorable by this

Recognisable for everyone from Gulf wars and acknowledging player that every second he didn't own this resource loosing money.
In city there can be gas station instead, many are connected to state pipeline system so can serve in same way like derricks but looks more natural in city.

This ideas evolved in thread:
http://www.commandandconquer.com/for...factions/page3


Some interesting threads about users feedback on
Sound, voices & music
http://www.commandandconquer.com/for...eas-and-wishes.
Unit quotes
http://www.commandandconquer.com/for...es-Idea-Thread
Upgrades
http://www.commandandconquer.com/for...?5258-Upgrades!
Units for EU and GLA
http://www.commandandconquer.com/for...the-EU-and-GLA

[bombspy]

Generals 2 should be a successor of Generals 1 + more MP game modes and everything should be fine...

[Alex06]

Reverse move and directional armor should definitely be included. The other 2, nah.

[BlueTyphoid]

Reverse move and directional armor should definitely be included.

This. Definitely. World in Conflict had something similar, along with tank formations, and it made tank gameplay much more satisfying.

[P1nkalicious]

I fondly remember spamming light tanks and microing them around heavy tanks.

[IonorRea]

Well in Generals i remeber using helos, migs and nuke canons so light tech easy come and easy go to heaven.
Overlords need even without directional armour protection agains fast moving terrorist on bikes or artilery pieces due slow rotating speed of turrets.

[P1nkalicious]

I was talking about WiC, though. Where every time something dies you get the credits to get more back.

But still... scorpion spam! Sure, I would have casualty stats in the hundreds, but it doesn't matter when I have 5 arms dealers and 20 black markets to constantly churn out more.

[BlueTyphoid]

I was talking about WiC, though. Where every time something dies you get the credits to get more back.

I would be strongly against this.

[P1nkalicious]

I don't want it in Generals, you misunderstand. The idea of WiC is that it's an objective and team based game.

[IonorRea]

P1nkalicious 01:48 PM
If ranking your oponent up and seeing air shows above your base cleaning off your black markets does not matter than it's ok.
Better give some tips for enchancing gameplay, then your ultimate win strategies in doubt.