Civillians and Human Resources

[Kitsune_UK]

Subject:
One thing I miss from the first C&C was having civilians on the map, but further to that, I had an idea for a game mechanic based on these civilians and their little towns/villiages.

Description:
Basic Plot/Setting:
A big disaster has destroyed most major population centres, either by plague or superweapons, meaning only smaller population centres remain. Industry is crippled and stockpiles are down.
GDI want to re-establish themselves over the remaining people of earth. NOD wants pretty much the same thing, by winning the hearts and minds of the people.
The days of battles being fought with endless supplies of tanks and troops are over. Now, every single bullet and trooper makes a difference.

Game Engine:
First of all, resources will be replaced by a People Pool and a Supply Pool.
Troops cost mostly People Pool and a little Supply
Tanks cost mostly Supply Pool and a little People.
Both pools regenerate very slowly, but to increase the growth rates you take over towns to boost People Pool and you boost Supply Pool by taking control of steel mills and ore refineries.

Taking a place over takes time and it is not enough to just occupy a villiage with a military force (Though this will block any benefits your opponent will receive)

To take control of population centres:
If you are GDI, then deploy a Distribution Centre.
If you are a NOD player, then rally the oppressed with a NOD Church.

Towns will send out trucks with people in them, back to your fixed location headquarters (Remove MCVs or make them very expensive). When the trucks arrive, you gain your pool.
Same goes for Supplies from steel mills or oil rigs. Supply trucks will drop off resources.
This means a well placed rocket trooper can cripple supply lines.

Truck movement is automatic, and towns will supply and replace them for free. (Replacing is slow though)

New and Old Troop ideas:
(Troop squads will be like C&C3)

Basic Infantry - Effective anti-trooper, limited anti-air.
Defenders - Does less damage and has less range then basic infantry unless patrolling. Increases People output from occupied towns.
Flame Troops - Clears buildings. Anti-trooper.
Grenage Troops - Clears buildings. Anti-trooper.
Mechanics - Remove repair button from game. These units repairs nearby buildings and vehicles (While vehicles are idle). Also increases base build times.
Medic - Heals nearby troops.
Rocket troops - Effective anti-vehicle and anti-air.
Spy - Stealth ability. Can also infiltrate buildings to distrupt things (Like in Red Alert). Can also hide in supply trucks.
Saboutour - Can deploy minefields, or put bomb traps in buildings. Can disarm them too.
Salvager - Can jury-rig destroyed vehicles and take them back to HQ to be converted in to Supply. Increases Supply output from factories.
Scout - Unarmed. Spots stealth, spies and traps. Generates a very wide field of view while garrisoned. Provides range bonuses to other troops garrisoned in same building.
Sniper - Stealth ability. Long range anti-trooper.

Many troops can be set to patrol towns, refineries or HQs and gain/provide bonuses while doing so. Some troops like the sniper, will be able to garrison instead. Some troops like the basic infantry, can do both.
With the exception of rocket troops, most troopers will do very little damage to buildings. You will need vehicles for that.

Vehicle ideas:
Ambassador - Deploys in neutral/subjagated towns and turns in to a GDI Distribution Centre or Church of NOD.
Artillery - Long range and inaccurate. Can lock down enemy towns with bombardment.
Comm Van - Unarmed. Anti-Stealth. Increases takeover speed of towns and increases People output as well.
Light Tank - Anti-Trooper
Medium Tank - Ok against troops and tanks
Heavy Tank - Anti-Tank and Anti-Building.
Patrol Buggies - Anti-Troop and anti-stealth. Fast and light. Will drive up and down supply lines, protecting them.
Troop transport - Can garrison up to 4 units inside for bonuses. Fast and light.
Flame Tanks - Clears buildings. Anti-Trooper.
Siege Tank - Long range. Anti-Building.

Aircraft ideas:
All aircraft have fuel, which needs replacing with Supply. Units will return to base to refuel automatically. Airbases can be switched off to save Supply. Aircraft will remain grounded in the meantime.

Helicopter - Anti-trooper.
Bomber - Anti-building and anti-tank.
Fighter - Anti-air. Fuel efficient, especially when patrolling a town or HQ.
Overseer - Unarmed. Fuel effiecient. Anti-stealth. Provides output boost to towns and refineries.

Building Ideas:
All players have a fixed location headquarters. Destroy this to win. Power no longer a resource.
Buildings grow out from the centre like hexes. No cost to build a building, it just takes time and you can only build one at a time, though you can stack up building requests.
Buildings can only be repaired with Mechanics. Mechanics can be set to patrol to cut down on micromanagement.

Barracks - Build all combat troops
Library - Build all non-combat troops
Vehicle Yard - Build all vehicles
Armoury - Provides bonuses to combat troops
University - Provides bonuses to non-combat troops
Refinery - Limit 1. Arriving Suppy trucks provide more bonus
Hospital - Limit 1. Arriving People trucks provide more bonus
Walls - Surrounds your base with laserwall, or concrete. Walls adjust if new buildings are added.
Turrets - Place on the walls for added protection.
Laboratory - Improve base defences and unlocks tech.
Airfield - Can build aircraft.

Positive Effect:
This makes for a much slower game, where advancement relies on occupying locations and defending them.
Sabotage and guerilla warfare will be an essential and major game mechanic. Also, lots of urban warfare.
It will be hard to take an enemy base without a strong strike force, so building up is important.

Negative Effect:
Some people will miss being able to rush and steamroller their enemies. Might rely on micro-management to make sure your supply trucks avoid hazards.

[Kane_J]

Sorry, you must of not seen CnC 4, Kane and Nod no longer exist, they "ascended" or something like that.

[Kitsune_UK]

I'm still playing though C&C4 (Its how I found the link to this site), but I guess this engine would still work for Red Alert 4.
Your thoughts?

[Sethcorvinus]

The news cast movie it asked a person if Kane was gone and he said " Kane gone, yeah right!" Kane can come back all he did was ascend to another civilization more advanced than earth.

[Kitsune_UK]

Ok, well plot points and what-have-you aside. Would this system appeal to people? (Just ignore GDI and NOD specific ideas for now)
A troop heavy combat system where air aupport and tanks are rare, but worth it. The return of civillians to the map and the need to control areas of the map to gain support for your army.

[ra2gamer]

I like the idea and I hope its get a new RA4.

[Borreh]

A bit mess here, but I like the idea. I actualy thought about something simillar for a while.

1) It's not NOD, it's Nod. It's not an acronym.

2) This is not an engine idea, it's a gameplay idea.

3) This changes the gameplay so much that making it a part of Tiberium series will be a bad idea, not to mention it makes little sense story-wise.

4) If you propose gameplay, then propose gameplay. No need for a full list of unit and buildings and stuff, especially specific. Only gameplay-necessary units/buildings/powers, like the supply trucks, need to be described in detail. By posting a list of units, buildings and other things you derail your own idea from it's basic, and very interesting, premise. Other than info on using fuel and other resources to function, there is no need to write about them. Not to mention it's always the matter of gameplay testing during game developement to see what works, what is balanced, and what doesn't.

5) Such limiting infantry types, which are designed to garrison/patrol/other stuff and nothing else, are unnecessarily overcomplicating the gameplay.

6) Cons: I disagree that steamrolling won't be an option now, you could still launch a ride to cripple the main enemy base. Also, multiple options as to what to do to take over a town/supply depot should be present to accomodate different gameplay styles. In the end, you should always be able to just raze the city with tanks/artillery/bomber aircraft/super weapons..

7) I really like this idea overall. I wanted such strategical gameplay for a long time. I think that player could also have the ability to control the way cities are menaged (reign of terror/neutral/humanitarian aid and other stuff) in order to get different bonuses/amounts of resources and so forth. A city morale system is worth implementing - Using specific units/buildings/powers the players should be able to change the city's political preference, from peaceful joining one's side, through supplying with additional resources and ammo, up to uprising.

--------

In my vision, the main sides are Confederation (Diesel-punkish/sci-fi Confederation army with heavy use of infantry supported by vehicles; farmer/neutral states gathered to defend their land from the invading Corporation) and some sort of Corporation (A tech-heavy mercenary army under the control of an ominious Corporation).

The difference? Confederation uses, as said, mostly infantry, deploys a wide range of supply vehicles and turrets and so forth, pretty much territorial warfare. They rely on unit cooperation in order to achieve success since many of their equipment is redesigned/refitted farming/working tools which some drawbacks.

Corporation - A very high-tech faction using one or two very basic forms of infantry, power armor infantry, and transforming anime mecha. Each mecha has two forms, one vehicular, and one robotic, and while specialisation is present, the mechas are perfectly able to hold on their own and pose threat even in small groups. They are (for the most part) very mobile and are a pain to take down even in small groups.

This basic premise would give two completely different ways to play the game with a very specific, territorial gameplay.

[calipor]

Ok, I have some ideas. I've been playing CnC ever since it came out in 1995 which is to say i was between 4 - 6 years of age when i played it. So here they are.

1.) Scrap the graphics and use CnC3 graphics 'cause in my opinion the graphics of CnC3 is more mature than that of CnC4.

2.) i agree with the use of troop squads like CnC3, it makes building a army quicker and more tolerable especially when you are low on resources.

3.) Introduce new units and factions since clearly CnC4 stated that Kane ascended but apparently by himself and the "old Brotherhood" was left to rot at the hands of power hungry nod officials.

4.) Resource Gathering: i assume that the place Kane has ascended into is also Tiberium-centric and hopefully we will see tiberium variants which can be processed to boost a particular specialization for all factions.

5.) The return of the Scrin: I personally hope that they will be back as actually a "cosmic" plague of sorts to advance civilizations that use tiberium either as a weapon or resource.

6.) Kane as the PROTAGONIST or ANTAGONIST? : We-e-ll really now. LOL. But it does seem plausible if he is to command a new culture and restore them to their former glory if that is where the story is going to, or if he plans to build a army and return to earth as the "messiah" to liberate the "oppressed and the believers" from the GDI.

7.) If they are to continue with the class based system, they should at least improve the base building system to all classes in the truest sense for that chosen class.

[Borreh]

Ok, I have some ideas. I've been playing CnC ever since it came out in 1995 which is to say i was between 4 - 6 years of age when i played it. So here they are.

1.) Scrap the graphics and use CnC3 graphics 'cause in my opinion the graphics of CnC3 is more mature than that of CnC4.

2.) i agree with the use of troop squads like CnC3, it makes building a army quicker and more tolerable especially when you are low on resources.

3.) Introduce new units and factions since clearly CnC4 stated that Kane ascended but apparently by himself and the "old Brotherhood" was left to rot at the hands of power hungry nod officials.

4.) Resource Gathering: i assume that the place Kane has ascended into is also Tiberium-centric and hopefully we will see tiberium variants which can be processed to boost a particular specialization for all factions.

5.) The return of the Scrin: I personally hope that they will be back as actually a "cosmic" plague of sorts to advance civilizations that use tiberium either as a weapon or resource.

6.) Kane as the PROTAGONIST or ANTAGONIST? : We-e-ll really now. LOL. But it does seem plausible if he is to command a new culture and restore them to their former glory if that is where the story is going to, or if he plans to build a army and return to earth as the "messiah" to liberate the "oppressed and the believers" from the GDI.

7.) If they are to continue with the class based system, they should at least improve the base building system to all classes in the truest sense for that chosen class.

The points are both offtopic and silly at best.

[GeneralSGJist]

Agree with Boreh,
In order for such a mechanic to have a chance of being implemented, it needs to enhance, not limit gameplay. (Removing MCVs from C&C will not end well, as a veteran member, you should know that). Most of what you said with the supply trucks I like, adds a very strategic element to the game (wasn’t there a GDI TS mission that tried this?) Anyways….

The thing to keep in mind is: you don't want to make this the central game, which is the direction this seems to be heading. I could link a similar Idea I had, but I don't want to limit your creativity, so I'll just say keep it simple.

Rarely will Devs implement full on detailed mechanics and ideas that the community come up with. They are looking for suggestions that play into existing mechanics, thus it’s the least work for them. They want simple yet elegant, complex, yet easy to understand and implement. In one word, they want “Depth”.

An entire supply system for structures and units would likely be too much for them, since it would require revaluating balance on a global scale. Furthermore Devs hate making new things, its just more work, sometimes its necessary, but in this case, many of the units you describe and their role can be repurposed. Specialty units are fun and add significantly to replay ability, but it is hell to balance.

When developing this idea further I’d recommend you consider the following:
1. Think back to KW GQ, and what they did with their cities. How could you translate that into a ground level RTS mechanic?

2. How can you incorporate both your pools into existing C&C mechanics? Can you tweak an existing mechanic to get your desired effect? (Conceptually of course, coding is none of our concern)


3. How would you retain balance, yet add the spice of diversity to at least 2 opposing factions? (you might want to think in terms for all 3 universes to maximize acceptance)

4. Keep it simple, devs nor community members want to read long complex mechanics which could have been described in a shorter fission. (Give them the General Jist XD)


5. Leave room for dev and community input. The one mistake I see most often across numerous fields is that people come up with ideas, and want to retain all the credit for thinking it up, the way most people handle this is to detail their ideas in such a specific fashion, that it leaves little room for input of any kind, all people can really say are brief comments, which don’t engage the reader, as demonstrated by the 1st few comments.

Since you spent your time writing it all up, I thought I’d owe you the same respect. Hope this helps you and others when developing ideas in the future.