Red Alert A Path beyond 2.1.1 IS OUT

[=LEVIATHEN=]

Renegade should be more like, well, any decent modern fps: stamina limit, no bunny hopping or zigzagging, proning, ironsights aiming, etc etc. MW sucks, and these are not features specific to MW, but are elements in most good quality fps games like Crysis and Battlefield.

A battlefield game in the RA1 universe with renegade style main bases and production would be awesome.

RED: Going prone and ironsights didn't exist in HL2 (well, technically ironsights/scope existed for one weapon). Same thing as TF2 and Counter Strike. I think bunnyhopping and zigzagging are available in them too, though I don't see them used often. (There may be some flaws in the multiplayer parts of those games, but that has to be expected with anything that involves collaborating with random people; you're going to run into a few bad nuts) There's a stamina limit in HL2, and there's no sprinting in the other games, so that can count as a limit too. Gmod has no limit though.
(Yes, I know that every game I just listed was created by Valve. They're a good example in this case)

My point is, a decent modern FPS doesn't require anything that you've listed.


ORANGE: Admittedly, I would like to see that. Just not as a replacement to the current A Path Beyond..

[Victimizer]

Except Battlefield has dolphin-diving, Crysis has decloak-shoot-recloak

I didn't say they were perfect games. Proning should not be dolphin-diving.

FPS games were simply more fun when they are arcade-y, wall-jumping epicness of Unreal, Quake.

I'm sorry, that's false. Unreal and Quake are incredibly boring games. They're even worse than the MW series, which are very arcadish as well.

Modern FPS games are simply terrible BECAUSE they absolutely kill each and every movement, dodging and map-navigation skill ceiling.

Many modern FPS games represent combat with increasing realism, and that's fine. The brainless arcade action of quake and unreal do not interest me in the slightest.

Admittedly, I would like to see that. Just not as a replacement to the current A Path Beyond..

Yeah, but I am not going to play an fps that has gameplay from 1997 when there's far superior FPS gameplay-models to emulate. Even though I absolutely love the RA1 setting.

I also believe that if such changes were made to this mod, they would attract more players overall.

[Harrrr]

I didn't say they were perfect games. Proning should not be dolphin-diving.

They're arcade-y...that's the point. Crysis is just Halo/CoD with a nano-suit, especially Crysis 2. All the battlefield series games are incredibly deft at infantry combat, though the vehicle combat is fun. Actually, I'm shocked you didn't even bother to mention the bastion of realistic games with ARMA, and instead try to pass off tamed arcade games as "herp derp realistic modern shooters".

I'm sorry, that's false. Unreal and Quake are incredibly boring games. They're even worse than the MW series, which are very arcadish as well.

Actually, it's not false. Each of those games offered higher skill ceilings for everything other than shooting which made the entire experience better. They might be boring to you, but each of those games had a greater degree of skill to master due to what they allowed and where they bent the rules

Many modern FPS games represent combat with increasing realism, and that's fine. The brainless arcade action of quake and unreal do not interest me in the slightest.

Except it's not 'brainlesss' especially in the fact of how and why bunny hopping, rocket jumping and map jumping came about. Those specific tactics where a result from intelligent investigation on how to more quickly and skillfully navigate the levels withing the bendable paramaters of the game. People don't strafe jump on couter-strike source because they're 'brainless' they, strafe-jump because they KNOW and intelligently discern that the game rules allow to move faster and have a less chance of being spray-killed.

It doesn't have to apeal to you, but you have shown a disnct inability to respect or admit that there's two sides of the coin. You either like tamed arcade games or you're 'brainless'. When a mod team that doesn't bend down and suckle your fantasies, you insult their work and intelligence. That's laughable.

Yeah, but I am not going to play an fps that has gameplay from 1997 when there's far superior FPS gameplay-models to emulate. Even though I absolutely love the RA1 setting.

They're emulating Renegade because they want to. THEY loved the Renegade gameplay, as with the Renegade X team. When you make mods and indies for free of charge, you explicitly earn the right to make what YOU want because YOU want to. The fact that both of these games have won multiple ModDB awards voted on BY THE PEOPLE is evidence that there's a following for it, and a sizeable one too.

I also believe that if such changes were made to this mod, they would attract more players overall.

Now that's illogical. You have a tirade agaisn't arcade-y games that aren't posers for ARMA but yet ignore the fact that the most popular games in the history of gaming are arcade-y and...apparently brainless.

One of the founding goals of APB was simply Renegade w/ Red Alert because all parties were fond of the Renegade gameplay and play style. I would staunchly disagree that it would gain players by catering to your niche. It would wreck the origins of the foundation of the game as a mod (it is no longer a mod now since EA has given them Renegade's source). Such a change would alienate the exsiting playerbase and the playerbase you suggested won't come because there are more modern realistic FPS out there. A hardcore BF3 player isn't going to move to APB regardless of what gameplay changes are made.

[=LEVIATHEN=]

^ Very well said once again Harrrr.

If you want a truly "brainless" game, you should look towards the modern FPS games that you listed. Battlefield, CoD, and Crysis, fun as they can be, are based on the simple matter of "Should I go left?" "Should I go right?" "Forward?" "Backward?" "Into this vehicle?"
The most tactful thinking and need for remote intellect in those games is really "Where's the best place to shoot these people from?"

I've never played Quake or Unreal (forgive me!), but I can demonstrate again with HL2 that a shooter can be fun and not brainless. You need to have a sort of sense for where to go and what to do in those games, because the game will help you a mere little of the time. You need to rely on intellect and curiosity.

[Victimizer]

They're arcade-y...that's the point. Crysis is just Halo/CoD with a nano-suit, especially Crysis 2. All the battlefield series games are incredibly deft at infantry combat, though the vehicle combat is fun. Actually, I'm shocked you didn't even bother to mention the bastion of realistic games with ARMA, and instead try to pass off tamed arcade games as "herp derp realistic modern shooters".

Realism is relative. The notion that games like Quake, unreal and renegade are not less arcadey or unrealistic than Crysis or MW is preposterous. At least in crysis and modern warfare the gameplay has some resemblance to realistic combat. In Crysis, the super-human element is explained away with the nano-suit, which is implausible but possible technology some time in the future (although far more distant than Crysis depicts, but then again, they have non-human technology to explain that away too).

MW2's arcadishness is largely explained by its game mode, which incentivises nonhuman recklessness, and some other features like the lack of recoil, the tiny maps, the lack of tiredness, and so on and so forth. But even with its myriad of bad features, MW has a far greater resemblance to reality than Renegade. MW could be made very realistic with only relatively slight adjustments. The same is largely true of BF series.

Oh sure, I could bring up ARMA, or rather, my favorite, the Project Reality mod for BF2. I could definitely play a Renegade with Project reality gameplay: stealth tanks would be hilariously awesome. Base defenses like teslas, though, would probably be leveled easily.

Except it's not 'brainlesss' especially in the fact of how and why bunny hopping, rocket jumping and map jumping came about. Those specific tactics where a result from intelligent investigation on how to more quickly and skillfully navigate the levels withing the bendable paramaters of the game.

Yeah, whatever, a bonobo ape could figure that stuff out if you give him enough time and treats as a reward.

The action is brainless: i.e. divorced from reality. Games like MW might have a love and hate relationship with reality, but Arcade FPS games like Unreal are no longer in a relationship with it.

They're emulating Renegade because they want to. THEY loved the Renegade gameplay, as with the Renegade X team. When you make mods and indies for free of charge, you explicitly earn the right to make what YOU want because YOU want to. The fact that both of these games have won multiple ModDB awards voted on BY THE PEOPLE is evidence that there's a following for it, and a sizeable one too.

I don't care what they like: I was just expressing the view that they should upgrade the FPS experience. It would have the positive effect of attracting players who have played modern FPS games and do not like *downgrade*. Because that's what renegade gameplay is, its a massive DOWNGRADE relative to other FPS games. Nostalgia is powerful, but not sufficient on its own.

[CnC_Fin]

I reckon I should download this new release, just for the fun of APB. They have European server running?

[CyborgBanana]

I had a lot of fun with this mod when it was first released, even though it had some major problems for me, but I'll give this version a bash. I just hope there's enough European people playing.

[=LEVIATHEN=]

Realism is relative. The notion that games like Quake, unreal and renegade are not less arcadey or unrealistic than Crysis or MW is preposterous. At least in crysis and modern warfare the gameplay has some resemblance to realistic combat. In Crysis, the super-human element is explained away with the nano-suit, which is implausible but possible technology some time in the future (although far more distant than Crysis depicts, but then again, they have non-human technology to explain that away too).

MW2's arcadishness is largely explained by its game mode, which incentivises nonhuman recklessness, and some other features like the lack of recoil, the tiny maps, the lack of tiredness, and so on and so forth. But even with its myriad of bad features, MW has a far greater resemblance to reality than Renegade. MW could be made very realistic with only relatively slight adjustments. The same is largely true of BF series.

Oh sure, I could bring up ARMA, or rather, my favorite, the Project Reality mod for BF2. I could definitely play a Renegade with Project reality gameplay: stealth tanks would be hilariously awesome. Base defenses like teslas, though, would probably be leveled easily.




Yeah, whatever, a bonobo ape could figure that stuff out if you give him enough time and treats as a reward.

The action is brainless: i.e. divorced from reality. Games like MW might have a love and hate relationship with reality, but Arcade FPS games like Unreal are no longer in a relationship with it.



I don't care what they like: I was just expressing the view that they should upgrade the FPS experience. It would have the positive effect of attracting players who have played modern FPS games and do not like *downgrade*. Because that's what renegade gameplay is, its a massive DOWNGRADE relative to other FPS games. Nostalgia is powerful, but not sufficient on its own.

RED: Almost all of the technology in almost all of the C&C games is implausible in some way, and if you want to add alien technology to that, then you can toss the technological realism part of this argument out the window.

When it comes to the movement mechanics, I can see why you favor the modern games. Modern games do have more realistic or developed movement mechanics, but that doesn't necessarily make them better.

If you're talking of tactful reckoning (how to proceed without dying, though that's probably not the way to say it), then I can tell you that that is thrown to the wind with almost all FPS games. You can always restart at a certain point, so the value of your life is not very frequently your concern, unless the checkpoints are far apart.

ORANGE: Well, if you put it that way, you could say that the ape could play any FPS game at all, in consideration. Unless the game puzzles your mind, it infrequently requires talent.

YELLOW: Hold up, how does the action being divorced from reality make it any more brainless? If anything, it allows for more originality and genius!

GREEN: That's true, but there's a reason people still play these games; not because it gives them nostalgia, but because they find it fun. So long as a game is fun, it doesn't matter how old it is.

Look, can't we leave this at this?

Some people prefer modernistic gaming, others prefer older forms, and all other preferations exist in between.

[Raapnaap1]

Hey guys, thanks for the interest in our project(s). Allow me to jump in with a few bits and pieces since we don't post here a lot.

2.1.1 aswell as the previous release, 2.1.0, have been silent releases without any 'marketing' behind them. We've been hard at work chopping away at the performance issues and we're improving it vastly with every 2.1.x series release. The next version, 2.1.2, is currently in testing and this version is yet another performance-focussed update, but also possibly the last in the 2.1.x series.

When we feel confident APB is where we want it to be, we will continue towards the 2.2.x series which will include a range of new content and actual project promotion. Some of the upcomming content includes a complete remake from scratch (and return) of Naval warfare.

We hear the request of AI support very often, but please be aware APB is not a singleplayer game project. The entire game has always been focussed completely on multiplayer, although fans have succesfully implemented AI in custom content using our 'APB SDK', including multiplayer co-op missions. We have no plans on officially supporting AI in APB.

We're also hard at work bringing you the first full releases of our Tiberian Sun Reborn and Red Alert 2: Apocalypse Rising projects. Yes, that is correct, BHP develops 3 completely different C&C projects on the W3D engine.

For regular updates on these projects (aswell as general BHP-community activities), visit our website!

www.bluehellproductions.com